Western media from Mi-28 transferred their admiration to the Arctic from TsAGI
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Western media from Mi-28 transferred their admiration to the Arctic from TsAGI

Western media from Mi-28 transferred their admiration to the Arctic from TsAGI

“Western media admired Russia's amazing Arctic helicopter”

They just do not admire, but rather, they saw their own benefit in this, which may mean the initial futility of this project - the future Arctic from TsAGI is not a rival to them, which means that they should be glorified as they are long obsolete and unsuitable for modern war. combat Mi-28 from the cost center.

Let's try to figure it out:

"The Drive information portal told about the" amazing aerodynamic design "of the promising high-speed Arctic helicopter of Russia».

Jet engine helicopter

It is about developed by specialists of the Central Aerohydrodynamic Institute named after Professor N.Ye. Zhukovsky concept of promising high-speed helicopter. The project is being developed as part of the Arctic development program announced by Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu. This program is designed not only to study the richest deposits and maintain the required level of combat readiness of the Russian forces in the region, but also to create socio-economic guarantees for the population, modernize the system of emergency medical care and equip it with new-generation aviation equipment.

Such a concept, as The Drive experts note, assumes that the helicopter will have an incredibly high speed, and at the same time it will be able to travel over distances over 1000 kilometers. According to the publication, such a device can be extremely useful for Russian troops in the Arctic. ("Political Russia").

Yes, it is said loudly and the look of the design is unusual, as if polished. But still, this project doesn’t smell like a new concept: just replacing the tail rotor with a jet engine, to which the mathematics says: “From changing places of the terms, the amount does not change!”

Besides, something like that has already happened on the Internet? Oh yes: "Eurocopter x4",

only at the end of the tail boom instead of a jet engine from TsAGI, the Eurocopter has a fenestron, and the rest: the twins are brothers! But there was no need to read admiration from the Western media on X4, this concept was adopted by them every day, according to our saying: “They count chickens until the autumn”.

And the liberal media anticipate: the West is already delighted - this will be the technique! Rejoice in advance !!! The calculation is on the innocent Ivan, because a single-rotor helicopter (with a jet engine or with a fenestron at the back) has an aerodynamic restraint that will not miss it in any high-speed series for high-speed corruption. The bottom line is that as the flight speed increases, the difference in the magnitude of the loads (lifting forces) of the left and right halves of the air flow from the oncoming traffic increases, which means that the list will grow in one direction or the other ( ). And already with V = 400 / h. a counter-flow on the one hand and passing at the same speed on the other hand will so overwhelm the helicopter (in the figure are green arrows) that there is not enough control to neutralize it. The end will be sad and the tail jet engine and the cunning tips of the rotor blades from N.S. will not help. Pavlenko, about which I have already written more than once.

The classic helicopter was invented at the beginning of the last century, more precisely “In 1910 — 1911. Boris Nikolaevich Yuriev, academician, winner of the Stalin Prize, proposed a single-rotor scheme of a helicopter with a tail rotor and built a helicopter over it. For that time, it was an advanced helicopter scheme, which has so far irretrievably lost its former significance, since any other scheme (coaxial, transverse, longitudinal) is faster, more economical and much safer.

In this figure, the disassembled Mi-8 can be seen separately tail boom (№13) - the carrier of the future tail jet engine (RD), which, by the weight of its weight, will also reduce the helicopter payload.

Responsibilities for her share fell heavy: to withstand the load on the fracture from XB. screws (RD) with a capacity of more than 500l.s. As for the jet tail engine directly from TsAGI, it will itself get into an expensive penny, and secondly, it will need additional fuel and also for the payload. Hence the question: is it worth the “game?” Yes, and even this engine must be searched? We must assume that this drawing of “high-speed arctic from TsAGI” is an order from the general designer of the holding “Helicopters of Russia” N.S. Pavlenko to receive another billionth portion of finance for the “future high-speed” helicopter, but under the pretext: “for the Arctic”. And colder means more!

No, I doubt that the future design of such a helicopter is intended precisely for the designation center of the Moscow Helicopter Plant. M.L. Mile, and they, poor fellows, still don’t bring their usual Mi-38 to their mind: “About 38 billion rubles was directed to the development of the Mi-2-2 helicopter. The Ministry of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation announced a tender to select a contractor to complete the creation of a helicopter ”(AviaRu).

And this dyuzhe capable in long-term design bureau, and only the Putin-Medvedev government does not deny confidence in the design of future high-speed helicopters: transport and combat! It’s very sad that the future of our helicopter building is handed over to the CBM through the holding “Helicopters of Russia” holding, knowing in advance that the billions of dollars allocated to them will be regularly spent on a zero result! Moreover, if they build their own Mi-38 already under 40, then high-speed RD (and suddenly they will be entrusted with it) they will build 50 commercials for years - just manage to allocate finances! By that time, the Arctic transport will already have to float over the Arctic ice using magnetic levitation or on gravity engines, and the heirs of the holding’s general designer N.S. Out of habit, Pavlenko will continue to promote the Mi-8 helicopter (prediction from ex. General AG Samusenko) and single-rotor helicopters with a tail jet engine from N.S. Pavlenko.

Old age is not a joy, even with a tail taxiway!

Vertopedia says: “The absence of power loss on the tail rotor (10 ... 12%), as well as a higher efficiency (by 15%) coaxial rotors at flight speeds up to 100 km / h with equal engine power, allow for higher thrust ( on 30%) carrier system. "

A helicopter with a taxiway will not have a tail rotor in the back, but the thrust of the rotor will remain at 15% less than the coaxial ax, and the heavy tail boom will remain as a legacy. Taking into account the high price and weight of the tail taxiway with a reserve of fuel for it, it turns out that “horseradish radish is not sweeter!”, Which, I think, was not understood by the scientists of TsAGI, since they are not designers. To this we must add the ability of a coaxial helicopter in hover mode to confidently withstand side winds, and then a logical question arises: is it worth continuing to “fence the garden” with single-rotor helicopters, especially since we have Ka-226 produced for a long time and are ready for serial production modern coaxial helicopters Ka-32-10AG.

But “Andrei Boginsky, proving the uniqueness of the results obtained in the Mil Design Bureau, says that X-2 (USA) is, in fact, an expensive toy that can find very limited use. Since the maximum take-off weight X2 - 3,6 tons. The Russian flying lab exceeds these figures 4 times. ” (Ka-92 and Mi-X1: Catch up and overtake Sikorsky tehnowar.ru 2017-06-23).

With a similar verbal husk, he is trying to justify fabulously large sums of money thrown into reworking the double cabin of the Mi-24 into a single with the addition of two letters at the back: "LL". But taking into account the experience of the “expensive toy” by the Americans, the 18-local coaxial SB-1 Defiant helicopter with the prospect of cruising speed = 460к / h is built and is already undergoing flight tests. Such a speed to the “solid” Mi-24 “LL” never dreamed of in a dream, even the maximum one, like the future helicopter from TsAGI with a tail taxiway. And then it is not difficult to guess that the acrobatic dances around the single-rotor helicopter continue to be performed with only one purpose: to justify torpedoing the current modern projects of the Ka-92, Ka-102 helicopters and high-speed combat helicopters from the Kamov general designer Sergey Mikheev, which in fact leads to undermine the defense and the economy of our State! The bottom line is that if the United States already has high-speed coaxial transport and combat (S-97) helicopters in hostile US, then there are no real high-speed helicopters in Russia, despite the fact that real projects of such helicopters from Kamov have existed for a long time! It must be assumed that the empty bastard turned to A. Boginsky from gene. cost center designer N.S. Pavlenko, who had 11 even a few years ago, assured everyone that his single-rotor Mi-X1 helicopter would reach maximum speed = 520-h / h, and Mi-24 LL in June 2016. speed = 460 / h.

And giving the Pindos a gain in time, “effective” managers solve a second, very important task for themselves: replenish their bottomless pockets with the state budget.

And to the ministerial generals of the Russian Federation, I once again suggest that you read the recommendations of real polar explorers on the use of helicopters in the Arctic.

“In the Arctic, an experimental unloading of the supply vessel to the unequipped shore by the Ka-32 helicopter was carried out. The experienced polar explorer Mark Ivanovich Shevelev, Hero of the Soviet Union, participated in this experiment.

Recalls Mark Shevelev:

"It was necessary to supply the polar station on Bear Island with everything necessary for a long wintering. Typically, this operation in the Arctic takes a lot of time. There are no berths, snow, wind, on the pontoon you will not always come to the shore. In a word, people drag cargo in icy water, and even special suits are not saved here. It is especially difficult to manually drag fuel tanks. But everything must be moved as far as possible from the sea, beyond the maximum tide line. And so, in spite of the fog, with the help of the Ka-32 helicopter we finished unloading the vessel "Sasha Borodulin" in just one and a half days.

The helicopter picked up a container with a cargo of five tons from the deck and carried it to the island to the very house of the meteorological station. "

Why was it not possible to invite a rotorcraft to riggers and loaders before? The matter is that in the polar conditions only Ka-32 can be reliably used for work with ships. The helicopter successfully passed comprehensive tests. Sailors, scientists, pilots appreciated his great opportunities.

The commander of the division of helicopter pilots of civil aviation Valentin Andreev:

"Ka-32 even us, flying on helicopters of different designs, surprised. This compact robust has excellent engines. He has on board a superb flight navigation system and a computer with which you can fly in automatic mode over the ocean and day, and on a polar night without a drive station and dispatchers. Electronic equipment always keeps the right course. "

This machine is a find for the Arctic. Ka-32 helicopters as part of Arctic caravans will bring serious savings to the national economy. "(Feast on Bear Island, Faithful Course, World Records Ka-32.).

Since the Ka-32-10AG is designed on the basis of the flawless Ka-32 that has proven itself in the Arctic, today it is the most important helicopter for work in the Arctic, in the North and the Far East to work in polar conditions! It seems that the ministerial generals of the newspapers do not read and are not familiar with such recommendations of the true polar explorers, or are so full of food that for them is the first thing personal enrichment, well, and the defense of the State is THERE!

Dear ministerial generals, take a closer look at the payloads of helicopters with VK-2500 engines in each, perhaps this time you will still see a difference in favor of coaxial Ka-32-10AG, which just catches the eye!

Load capacity ...

1. Coaxial helicopter Ka-32-10AG: on the external suspension - 7000kg.

2. The newest helicopter Mi-171А2: on the external suspension - 5000kg.

At the same time, the speed characteristics of the Ka-32-10AG are higher than those of the Mi-171А2 helicopter, but the Russian government launched the worst helicopter in the series (apparently out of Russia), namely: Mi-171А2!

Vitaly Belyaev, especially for Avia.pro

And there are more Jews than in the government, and the shareholders of Mil Pindos failed to fail, now they want to cut the dough

I alone noticed that all articles are obscured by the Russian aviation industry ???????????????????????

Yeah) There is an obsessive direction. Also drew attention.

In experimental development, even failure has a positive result. Maybe they are ahead of time. How many Soviet developments are now implemented only a limited circle of specialists knows

"And giving the Pindos a time gain," effective "managers solve the second, very important task for themselves: replenish their bottomless pockets at the expense of the state budget." To drive all effective managers from the defense industry to the damn mother, without waiting for the final destruction of our defense industry and Russia's defense capabilities.

I served on helicopters (Mi-24, Mi-8) 20 years. By the will of fate, I now work for the Kamovskys. I can say that everything Belyaev wrote is absolutely true.

26 Guest Jul 2019 on 07: 37
Everything that is written here about the project may be true, perhaps everything is even worse. Only this article is ordered from Kamov. They stupidly in contrast praise their helicopter. Therefore, this text of faith can not be, like any propaganda.
Guest, you are right: ORDER! And not so much from the “Kamov”, but from the combat pilots, or more precisely: from the State! The launch of the Mi-28HM series, which is the last modification of the long-obsolete Mi-24, in fact means the fulfillment of the wishes of the opposing party, i.e. USA! The maneuverability of the Mi-28 is even worse than the maneuverability of the Mi-24 due to the greater frontal resistance, the Mi-28НМ will be similar, even if you install a couple more new ATGM complexes. By the way, 2 Mi-28Н fell in Syria, and in old age - one Mi-24 and one Mi-35, which was hit by a tail rotor with a rocket. Total: six combat pilots died, we don’t count economic losses from lost helicopters, because Russia is rich, so "whose cow would moo"!
And in order for such "reliable" helicopters to be delivered to our Army instead of the outstanding Ka-50, S. Sikorsky flew to Moscow in 2000 in the year: "Sergey Sikorsky came to meet with our stakeholders to lobby for the interests of Mil in his authority and money. And he succeeded. (SIKORSKY AGAINST KAMOV. Magazine Ogonyok No. 30 from 27.08.2000, p. 21).

Everything that is written here about the project may be true, perhaps everything is even worse. Only this article is ordered from Kamov. They stupidly in contrast praise their helicopter. Therefore, this text of faith can not be, like any propaganda.

Vitaly Belyaev, who are you?

that neither the colonel or the general in the Russian serials is stupid or dumber-like, and the lieutenants were not-at stake defensiveness

I propose to design
bearing screw with possibility
its displacement with increasing
speed in the direction of the desired side
to stabilize the flight.

Article on the case. But the problem is fixable. As the hero Conan Doyle - Holmes would say: "Elementary Watson!" In the proposed development, it is necessary to remove the propeller from the helicopter cabin, attach short wings to the helicopter and install engines with a variable thrust vector on them. When taking off the helicopter, the thrust of the engines should be directed upwards, they will lift the helicopter, and when flying, the engines will create thrust forward to ensure the flight of the machine.

The proposed scheme has been known for a long time, Autogyro is called ...

Not a gyroplane, but a convertiplane. Amers are produced in series.

Read the article "Mercurial Propulsion of Vimana" in the journal Science and Life of Israel. There is a fundamentally different solution.

They praise me because they are bad. Logic is a beast. After this one can not read further.

And Mr. "Birch": S. Sikorsky once flew to Moscow with the aim to achieve the decommissioning of the outstanding Ka-50 and launch into a series of weakly maneuverable, and also dead Mi-28Н. And he did it - here's your "logic"! You can not read further!

And nobody asked you to read the article originally!

Aleksey 17 Jun 2019:
“What is Ka-32-XNUMHAG? Project. On paper.
What is the Mi-171A2? Helicopter: passed flight tests. Serially produced.
Dear Mile designer, acting here under different nicknames, in particular: "Aleiksey" and "Kamovets"! It’s true for today, and they had the same beginning: two projects based on production Mi-8 and Ka-32 helicopters. Mi-8 transported on an external suspension 3. cargo, and Ka-32-5. In the Mi-8, the fuselage was left in the old version, while the Ka-32 has completely redesigned it and now has modern aerodynamics, and in terms of volume it is commensurate with the Mi-8.
Mi-171А2 Capacity: Flight crew - 2 person;
Passengers Up to 24 pers.
Target operating temperature range:
-50 / + 50 ° C. (Mi-171А2 | Transport and passenger helicopter
russianhelicopters.aero ›... helicopters ... mi-171a2.html).

Ka-32-10 Kamov developed technical proposals for the creation of a new helicopter with the symbol Ka-32-10. This was announced, speaking at the congress of oilmen of Russia in Ufa, the general director of the designer of the company "Kuamov" S. Mikheev. According to him, the new helicopter can be developed, certified and put into mass production at the Kumertaus aircraft plant in the next three years. Ka-32-10 is a deep modernization of the Ka-32 helicopter, created on the basis of the anti-submarine Ka-27. It has an extended cabin, designed for passenger 24. Ka-32-10 payload inside the fuselage - 4 tons, on the external sling - 7 tons. Customers will be offered a new machine at the price of 3,8-4,5 million dollars.
(Source: AVN News Agency Published: 07.06.2001). And the Ka-32-10AG will carry 26 passengers!
And from which ceiling did you get that the Mi-171А2 carries more passengers to the 10? Another habitual lie!

so burned that made a mistake in the name :)
I admit that I have already responded to your fantasies somewhere. Perhaps it was signed at that time differently, but definitely not Kamovets. I have no relation to the cost center. How would you not want that.
Once again. In my opinion, the project should not be compared with a flying helicopter.
The increase in the cargo compartment will inevitably pull the replacement of the carrier system. behind her engines. gear ... and went running. And how to fly with it? No way. Coaxial scheme has limitations. It will not be possible to make a coaxial helicopter as load-lifting as a single-rotor. Although - perhaps do something. But he will carry only himself.

If you are not a Kamovets or a Milovets, then how do you know the logic of building a helicopter: "and went, went." Yes, a coaxial helicopter has a load limit, so they do not build the Mi-26, but the fact that their Miniog is more load-bearing and faster than the Ka-27, but
easier - undeniable FACT!

Well, do you agree with the logic? The source of logic is not much different from yours (because you have an aviation education?). Only for some reason, from different perspectives, we look at the same problems, perceive advantages and disadvantages with different signs.
And yet again you are talking about a project, a certain Lamprey ... It will fly away - it will be possible to talk

What is Ka-32-10AG? Project. On paper.
What is the Mi-171A2? Helicopter: passed flight tests. Produced in series.
Ka-32 say ... How many people can he take on board? On 10 less than Mi-8T. And where is more comfortable to fly a passenger? I do not think that the type of gear in the cabin will impress anyone. Load capacity more than Mi-8? Nothing that he (Ka-32) is lighter by almost 4 tons? And the engines are the same (almost).
Etc. etc.

I remember, I remember ... It was, it was ... A few years ago they built WIGs for the Arctic ... China and Iran were going to fill up with such WIGs. Well, I didn’t THINK !!!

Dear Chipmunk, I’d like to tell people: what it is - “cyclical change of the screw pitch” and to what speed it is true, instead of “nonsense” with common phrases!

It seems that the author does not know the words “cyclic change of a pitch of a screw”.

Otherwise, it would not have written nonsense about the difference in lift forces to the left and right in the forward movement.

While the Swat-Brother-Kum-Kontor algorithm is working in the government, we cannot see any luck.

Alas, comrade officers, we fly and fly on the backwaters of the Soviet Union while furniture makers, correspondents and accountants are at the head of the organizations that determine not only our future, but the perspective of our children and grandchildren. and he smiles sweetly, kisses the children in his tummy. It is time for him to retire, and these figures to the store, the editorial office and the road office!

How can we transfer our admiration to what is not yet, and perhaps it won't be at all ?? Why don’t we admire the future corn harvest of 2026?))) Planet is not scared idiots !!

“Guest”, if I understood correctly, is your Mi-38 worse than eight?
Vadim: “I am not a specialist in helicopter construction, but nevertheless I can confidently say,” that together with the Guest are great specialists in topic balancing. Let me remind you of Vladimir 17’s comment on May 2019: “Everyone rushed to discuss those details - and swearing in the direction of the government remained“ on a subcortex ”. What do Washington political psychologists seek? ”

There will be no new car. Interpretation of MI-8 will remain. The best is not to invent.

1. Dear Vadim, guarantees for the overlap of rotors for coaxial helicopters are less than for Mi helicopters for hitting the rotor blades on the tail boom.
2. About the maneuverable capabilities of "Ka" and "Mi" once in the comments spoke pilot Mi-24:
«Andrew 17 Mar 2018. Very strange Paul, that you do not agree. It seems that you have not seen the comparative flights of these cars! So, if we compare them by maneuverability, it’s like comparing a passenger car (KA-50) with a truck (MI-28) ”;
Andrew 18 Mar 2018. I myself 20 years flew to MI-24. What is the car pleased than saddened. But generally agree, hard and not agile. In the mountains clumsy. For the first time in 50, in Primorye, the KA-90 collided with us. They promised us all their maneuverability. They promised to switch to them soon. But apparently not enough money. So he quit 24s (avia.pro/kamov-protiv-milya).

Sensible seemingly arguments about fundamental flaws
The helicopter scheme of moving in the air is suddenly replaced by a declaration of political slogans and arguments to whom how much money was given. One only use of the word “Pindos” immediately determines the level of publication and the author himself.
At the end of the article, the author finally reveals the secret intent of writing it. It turns out you just have to use spacecraft, not MI. Apparently the author believes that the coaxial scheme is devoid of all the flaws inherent in the helicopter propellers and described by him at the beginning of the article.
I am not an expert in helicopter construction, but nevertheless I can confidently say that the tail boom of a coaxial scheme is indeed easier, but at the same time it leads to reduced maneuverability at low speeds. Not to mention the possible overlap of rotors.

Dmitry, but could you, apart from the general high, but well-worn phrases, write specifically in the case?

Article - complete nonsense.
A person (writer) is an unreasonable child.
Kamov’s helicopters are extremely difficult to operate and maintain, requiring a high level of ITS training and pilots.
And even more insane article on using it in the interests of the Russian Defense Ministry in general discourages readers.
Everything needs to be assessed diversified.
In the end I will add, but on what ezdit our dear author? On a Mercedes or on a Zhiguli? A good ancient proverb says would buy an ox - but the priest is small.

Everyone rushed to discuss those details - and swearing to the side of the government remained "on the subcortex". What do Washington political psychologists seek?

An article about what? About the abuse of the country's leadership? Or a discussion of technical details? Rather, just psychologically "verified" pressure, covered with technical details. It seems that I understand the technique, and the rest as well. Who will check this technical information.

Article - crap. "It looks like a Eurocopter, so nothing new! Kokoko!"

About the laws of aerodynamics, the author knows nothing, and considers the replacement of a gas turbine engine with a jet one to be nothing special.

Where did you hear about the laws of aerodynamics, that you talk so confidently about them?

such a helicopter is needed. and it will be made but a fundamentally new with regards to the case for sure.

Yuri! A one-sided cost center designer, performing here under different nicknames Apparently with vision you do not care? Read it again: you can understand that the example of the Eurocopter X4 is given in the article only as a comparative appearance with the project from TsAGI and no more, and what is there for Eurocopters who are going to do this concept? “What is wrong with this scheme?!” - you, as the designer of “Mi”, know you well without me, so I see no reason to repeat the same thing!

Normal article or debriefing. It would be good to hear an alternative. Maybe there is an option !!

“The classic helicopter was invented at the beginning of the last century, more precisely.” In 1910 — 1911, Boris Nikolayevich Yuryev, academician, winner of the Stalin Prize, proposed a single-rotor helicopter scheme with a tail rotor and built a helicopter on it. ”For that time it was an advanced scheme the helicopter, which has so far irretrievably lost its former importance, because any other scheme (coaxial, transverse, longitudinal) is faster, more economical and much safer "
And then he gives an example of the 4 Eurocopter concept, built exactly according to the same scheme =)
What is wrong with this scheme then ?!

SV 05 in May 2019 Question: - And where is the “certificate” that the author is also not “west”?

Dear CB! Helping me is really bad and I don’t know where to get it? I hope for your experience - tell me!

Very interesting.
So, at first such logic: the West praises, it means - this is bad, do not fall for cunning.
Then: the author proposes this and that. Question: - And where is the “certificate” that the author is also not “west”?

By the way, Alexander-Pavel, and in your design bureau they have already attempted to build a Mi-42 helicopter with gas dynamic compensation of torque HB (NOTAR), but “The performance of the NOTAR system on such a heavy helicopter was in doubt, so I had to refuse it and replace it with a steering screw -fenestronom ". Or do you again want "the same end - in the same place", only now with the prefix "Arctic"?

What kind of tail taxiway does the author keep talking about?
Gas dynamic compensation of the torque HB ALL does not imply the use of additional engines.
Well, the Russian language is good to tighten, and then read in some places disgusting.

Alexander, when it is disgusting to read something, do not read it!
The gas-dynamic compensation of the torque at the helicopter is called “NOTAR”, and the article says in black and white: “The Drive experts admired the“ amazing aerodynamic design ”of the TsAGI project. According to them, this concept of a helicopter with a small jet engine in the tail section predetermines its high speed, considerable flight range and fuel efficiency compared to traditional aircraft (Western media admired the amazing ... politros.com ›... zapadnye-smi ... arkticheskim ... rossii).

"The weight of your weight" - the author, you from the "successful" fashion managers will ?!

What kind of tail taxiway does the author keep talking about?
Gas dynamic compensation of the torque HB ALL does not imply the use of additional engines.
Well, the Russian language is good to tighten, and then read in some places disgusting.

everything for people!



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