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Technological "jerk" on the Mi-24 and Mi-8 helicopters!

Technological "jerk" on the Mi-24 and Mi-8 helicopters!

"Technological breakthrough: the Ministry of Defense chose the developer of the Russian advanced high-speed helicopter MVZ" (RT).

The Ministry of Defense and the Russian Helicopters holding seem to have organized a competition for the projects of modern helicopters and it seemed that they would now develop real combat vehicles for our VKS - the winners of the competition instead of outdated Mi-type guns. But the “effective” managers remained true to themselves: in fact, the competition turned out to be just an imitation and Army Aviation will continue to arm with retro helicopters Mi-24 / Mi-8 from the Stone Age and for many years:

“And so,“ this week, the Russian military still uncovered the maps and it turned out ... that the Advanced Military Helicopter would be built not by the Kamov Design Bureau, but by the Mil Design Bureau. The very thing that developed the famous Soviet "crocodiles". As it turned out, the high-speed helicopter will also be built on the basis of the Mi-24, but using the latest developments. ” (November 19. "Bleed Crocodile" zen.yandex.ru/media/).

Unfortunately, “the very thing” of the Mil Millenium Design Bureau is far from “the very thing that the famous Soviet“ crocodiles ”have developed. It seems that the professionalism of today's general designers is far from the level of the great ML Mil, although they are trying to“ improve ”his products: "As it turned out, the high-speed helicopter will also be built on the basis of the Mi-24, but using the latest developments."

Another bluff

In KB, the cost centers are not the first to "develop" a high-speed helicopter "using the latest developments," and the output will again be Mi-24LL with an "alien super-screw". Unfortunately, for the tail rotor, the time is behind and make the combat helicopter faster and better. Mi-24 - MARTYSHKIN labor and time to understand that the technological capabilities to improve the helicopters of the classical scheme have long been exhausted. Back in Soviet times, the Milevs made an attempt to develop a high-speed Mi-42 combat helicopter for the landing, but it was not there: “In the end, the experts came to the conclusion that creating a new helicopter in strict accordance with the technical specifications of the customer The development of instrument engineering and technology is simply not possible. By the end of 1980-s, the work on the creation of the Mi-42 helicopter was stopped ”(Unrealized project - Mi-42 topwar.ru).

Those. Their conclusion is the proverb: “a bad dancer is always in the way”.

And where does the "bad dancer" come from? Yes, despite the fact that Kamovtsevs already had ready-made designs for B-100 and B-50 helicopters with rated speeds of 450k / h. and 400 / h. accordingly, the “military” behind high-speed flying infantry fighting vehicles for some unknown reason, instead of KB “Kamov” found themselves in the CB of cost centers, from which they later left “not salty breadmakers”. True, designers of cost centers claim that they have developed a main rotor with outstanding performance in terms of both speed and load for any helicopter: “only due to aerodynamics, the thrust of the main screw Mi-171А2 increased by more than 700 kg, which had a positive effect on the whole flight performance ”(AviaPort.Ru. 24.05.2018).

So let's compare: “super-perfect” Mi-171А2 based on Mi-8 and ordinary Mi-8 with Ukrainian engines (MSB-8).

LTH Mi-171А2.

Max. payload:

  • Inside the cargo cabin 4000 kg
  • On the external sling 5000 kg
  • Top speed 280 km / h
  • Cruising speed 260 km / h
  • Practical 6000m ceiling.

LTX of the Ukrainian SMB-8 helicopter.

  • Maximum load inside the cargo cabin, kg 5 000
  • Maximum load on the external suspension, kg 6 000
  • Maximum speed, km / h 300
  • Cruising speed, km / h 270
  • Practical ceiling, m 7 500

And if modern super-powered VK-2500PS-03 engines with a digital control system are added to the super-screw, then for Mi-171А2 there should not be equal in its class for LTH.

Yes, no matter how wrong! The MSB-8 helicopter with Vyacheslav Boguslaev with the old rotor is superior to this rigged helicopter in both payload and speed. It is also important to add that the practical ceiling of the Mi-171А2 is less than the Ukrainian already on the 1500. - here are the old Milev screw!

It is easy to guess that a “promising” combat helicopter from the cost center will have similar “outstanding” flight characteristics, which is why they don’t even have a description of this winning project, even in general terms - there are only greedy phrases! If S.V. Mikheev such a scheme is available, it is also in print. Of course, far from everything is laid out, but the average reader is well enough shown in the media to understand the project. Kamov's PBB has no additional pushing screws to ensure high speed, but it can be clearly seen that the achievement of the required speed will be at the expense of the main engines. The beginning of such an interaction “engines - pulling screws” was laid by the Ka-22 rotor wing, when the power of the engines automatically increased from the rotors to the pulling ones with increasing speed, and the wing lift increased with the increase in speed, unloading the rotors!

Here it is assumed the interaction of engines and rotors with rigid blades also depending on the speed: first, the speed increases due to the thrust of the rotors, and as the speed increases, the engines are gradually transferred to jet thrust and the helicopter continues to vigorously increase the translational speed, thereby increasing lift wings, unloading rotors.

It is here that the joint work of the designers of the PBB with the designers of the engines is necessary. But the ministers' generals involved STOP-CRAN against the Kamovtsevs and the designers of the cost centers must work with the engines now, because the cost centers have been chosen to develop the future PBV. But they do not have a living project that won the competition and in fact it turns out that the engine designers currently have no one to work with:

The "Star" was told by the executive director of JSC "ODK-Klimov" Alexander Vatagin.

“The VK-2500ТM engine links only the name to the VK-2500 engine. This is a fundamentally different engine that is being designed from scratch. We cannot boast that it is already ready, because at the moment there is no final decision on the platform what kind of helicopter it will be. Therefore, there is no final decision on the power or appearance of this product. To date, we continue to work on the design, materials and a whole range of other technical solutions that are worked out at individual units and engine components, but we dem solutions developer for high-speed helicopter perspective " (12.12.2018 tvzvezda.ru).

Possible options for high-speed single-rotor helicopters

1.

Perhaps, this is the most convenient and reliable option for switching from a classical scheme to a high-speed helicopter, but they gave it to Eurocopter long ago and, I think, with a guarantee that they will not proceed to such development in the future. Meanwhile “In the 2013 year, after modifying a number of aerodynamic elements, the helicopter was able to accelerate to speed in 472 km / h in horizontal flight and to 487 km / h in a dive” (skyships.ru).

2.

Helicopter Piasecki X-49A

A similar option from the general designer of the MVZ and the holding "Helicopters of Russia" N.S. Pavlenko was already: Mi-X1, only without wings.

This miracle helicopter has huge wings and a turning tail rotor, which complicates the design, makes it heavier and increases the cost of the helicopter as a whole! By the way, the maximum speed of the X-49 is only 415c / h, although they have been working on this helicopter for a long time, but the result is still far from the desired one. To our Mi-X1 one should also add hefty wings, like those of X-49, then the already clumsy Mi-24, due to the heavier tail rotor, will become even more sluggish, and only the crew with a camera as an intelligence officer will be able to carry !

3.

This “super-helicopter” cannot be mastered by speed not so much that 500c / h, but even in the 400c / h record, but it’s not stuttering about the operating conditions! The speed in 405 / h, allegedly achieved during the tests: from the evil one! By the way, the general designers of the cost centers are currently trying to replace the maximum speed in the descriptions - a record one. For example, they have a test pilot in a Mi-38 helicopter set a speed record = 320k / h. and now in all descriptions we read:

Mi-38 "Aircraft Performance

  • Cruising speed: 295 km / h km / h
  • Maximum speed: 320 km / h. ”(Wikipedia).

The Mi-6 has a speed record = 340k / h and a maximum V = 300k / h.

The speed record of the helicopter Mi-24 = 368k / h, and Vmax. = 330 / h etc. etc.

Surprisingly, verbiage gene. cost center designers are highly paid for and promises are easily financed under the “R & D” and R & D for supposedly future modern helicopters. And at the exit from this design bureau from the 80s of the last century, both there wasn’t a new helicopter model (Mi-38 they inherited), not to mention some kind of revolutionary project. No less surprising is the fact that the President himself continues to use the antediluvian Mi-8 and it is not clear: why is the President of the State with a developed helicopter building not ashamed to fly on such junk? Well, there would be no replacement, but there is a ready project of a modern and more secure Ka-32-10AG helicopter, more comfortable and speedy, not to mention the fact that it looks much nicer than the Mi-8 with a tail beam attached to the fuselage , so even with the propeller behind - on the side.

President of the holding "Helicopters of Russia" is justified:

“Nobody oppresses anyone, just normal competition is going on ... There is internal competition, there are competencies to substantiate or prove the point of view of one of the two design bureaus. And the customer already chooses a more compliant option, ”added the general director of Russian Helicopters.

He also added that the design office of Kamov is already working on the sketch design of the fourth generation Miniog helicopter: “The Kamov design bureau has always been strong, and these competencies have been preserved, we multiply them in the field of producing special helicopters of coaxial configuration or other conditions, first of all in the fleet, ”said Boginsky (russian.rt.com).

The Ka-52 helicopter of the coaxial scheme convincingly proved that he was the best fighter in the land variant on the battlefield of the Syrian war, therefore A. Boginsky actually tries to justify torpedoing the progress of the helicopter of the State as a whole: this is not a regional competition for the best harvest tractor, but design work bureau for the best defender of our State and in the development should be launched a more advanced version of a combat helicopter that fully meets the requirements of modern warfare, but not a cosmetic upgrade of the Mi-24 in the middle us of the last century!

This is the prestige of the state, its capabilities in future defense capability: on which helicopters our pilots will defend our Fatherland, there will be such successes! Therefore, it would not be worthwhile for A. Boginsky to replace the helicopter industry as a whole with one of the cost centers design offices! Gene. the cost center designers from 2008goda show only one model at exhibitions, and instead of the true high-speed helicopter, it showed the world half a century, although cosmetically and redeemed by the Mi-24LL!

"December 27 2018. Concerns Sikorsky and Boeing showed the latest multi-purpose military helicopter SB-1 Defiant, capable of developing a record speed, according to Breaking Defense. The novelty is distinguished by a special arrangement of screws: to ensure thrust, a pushing screw is mounted on the tail boom of the helicopter for quick flight. ” The author admires the innovation of the rear propeller, which is copied from our Ka-92!

But is it not time to stop admiring overseas copies of our products, and to proceed with the development of domestic, truly modern helicopters from the company "Kamov"!

PS Even in the pre-war Soviet times, the liberals powerfully torpedoed our best military equipment.

Stalin, Il-2 attack aircraft and pests

25.05.2018

“The fate of the famous Victory weapons, the mighty Il-2 attack aircraft, was not easy. If it were not for the personal intervention of Comrade Stalin, the front could never have received an excellent combat vehicle.

Designer Ilyushin created prototypes of the new aircraft shortly before the war. Initially, the aircraft was conceived and developed in a double version.

The pilot drove the car and ran a powerful cannon armament for firing at the airplane's course. In order to protect the attack aircraft from enemy fighters, a gunner-radio operator with machine-gun was mounted at the rear.

In January 1940, the prototype machine successfully passed state tests, was highly appreciated by combat pilots and ... turned out to be completely unclaimed by the military. For unclear reasons, customers referred either to low maneuverability, or to insufficiently powerful armor, and they did not allow the aircraft to move.

The designer for almost a year knocked down the thresholds of the People's Commissariat, but did not achieve anything. Desperate Ilyushin writes a crushing letter to the Central Committee, to Comrade Stalin personally. The invitation to the Kremlin came in a few days.

Stalin listened in detail to the designer’s explanations and gave the order to immediately launch the aircraft into a series for deliveries to the operating units. In the conditions of assault work, the car was launched and the first two serial boards were released by March 1941.

Ilyushin's detractors did not calm down. Large ranks of the Air Force forced the designer to change the attack plan of the aircraft - to eliminate the cockpit of the gunner-radio operator.

According to the military, removing the second cabin and machine-gun installation, they make the aircraft easier and more maneuverable. In addition, the speed and ceiling of the flight machine will increase slightly.

No matter how the designer insisted on preserving the original layout, the military turned out to be stronger. As usual, the war made its own adjustments.

The German pilots very quickly discovered that the powerful attack aircraft was completely defenseless from above and behind. Fascist fighters began to massively shoot down single attack aircraft, which could not line up in a defensive circle and cover each other.

In February, designer 1942 was summoned to the leader along with the people's commissar. Stalin waved his hand to Ilyushin and said:

- I have to admit, Comrade Ilyushin, rightness is yours!

- What is it, Comrade Stalin?

- You gave the army a great double attack aircraft. And some irresponsible comrades turned it into a single. There are not enough fighters on the front, and without their cover, attack aircraft suffer greatly from enemy fire.

The Supreme ordered to return to the double circuit as soon as possible. But with the prerequisite:

Congratulating the designer on the successful launch of a double car, Comrade Stalin said:

- What to take with the military, Comrade Ilyushin! So all over the world, they always hold on to the old days, they fight according to the usual patterns. But you, too, were flawed, did not insist on the correct layout of the aircraft from the very beginning!

- What could I have done, Comrade Stalin, I am alone, but against the whole Commissariat!

- So, letting close-minded people or even enemies harm? Uh, no! The Soviet designer should not be like that. They are you at the door - you are at the window. Only in this way will we win!

According to the results of the analysis of the story with the “Ilyushin attack aircraft”, a number of employees of the People's Commissariat and representatives of the army customer were identified and punished. Not all of them turned out to be stupid, some braked the promising Soviet attack aircraft quite deliberately ”(zen.yandex.ru).

As we see, V.V. Putin also supports technical excellence, but more verbally, and in aviation technology he only wished to see a supersonic passenger plane a couple of times, i.e. the fact that so far today for a number of reasons is impossible! So the best in the world attack helicopter Ka-50 "Black Shark" with the armament removed his friend: ex. Minister of Defense S. Ivanov for the sake of the clumsy, and even unfinished Mi-28H. In Syria, two Mi-28 and one Mi-24 were lost without affecting them from outside. The Mi-35 rocket exploded in the region of the tail rotor and again - a disaster! And the Ka-50 helicopter would have easily flown to the base and after repair it would have been able to work again. But V.V. Putin, being in the Far East, admired the capabilities of the Ka-50, but did not restore it in time to replace the unsuitable for modern warfare by the Mi-28Н.

Vitaly Belyaev, especially for Avia.pro

A lot of comments and everything from "significant specialists", in fact, the discussion resembles a vulgar bickering.
Conclusion: there are no helicopters and they will not be soon. And those that do not meet the conditions of modern war, and they are not enough. The approach to business must be changed. We must not "compete" for the wolf, but by joint efforts create advanced equipment and strengthen the country's defense capability.

T.N. Mi-8, again judge by yourself! It is good that I am not in Mile, so as not to breed such a bodyguard instead of answers in the case.

And the truth - how much do they pay? I think not much, if such long Kam ears stick out of each article. Careful need like that ...

Alexander 03 Apr 2019: "How much did you get paid in the Kamov Design Bureau."

Alexander, I suspect that he and Vladimir, you are not tired of constantly asking the same stupid question?
And do not blame me for your shortcomings, because all the money from the Russian Helicopters holding company goes only to your cost center, and Kamov has miserable leftovers and has no money to pay for the articles, which you know better than me!

1. How much did you get paid to the Kamov Design Bureau, for what you would write such articles against Mil Design Bureau?
2. Well, you ukroaviaprom offended, and did not report that stolen Mi-8MSB now according to ukrov possesses the height of the flight 8 000 meters?

Vladimir, and you could not give a link where S.V. Mikheev "muddies" Milevs; I think you wrote here according to the principle: “If you want to annoy a person - accuse him of your shortcomings!”.
As for his single-screw Ka-62: not with any French he was not “blown away”, they would not come to such perfection soon. For your information: AW139 was so successful, that SVMikheev had a hand in him, and Ka-62 was his brother!

KB Kamov famous helicopters with coaxial screws, fine. But lately, this design bureau is clearly a creative crisis: the throwing and the transition to a single-screw scheme began. Well, respectively, pouring mud, otherwise it is impossible to name, competitors. But the attempt to switch to the single-screw scheme did not work out very well, just copied a French helicopter. In short: bad if the boots start to torch the cakeman, and the pies are a shoemaker.

".. lately .." - it is you who got excited. From the beginning of the 80's, Kamovsky kids are experimenting with a single-rotor scheme.

Yes, on which helicopters the American president flies - this is authoritative for you, and for me: to the point of the bulb and I worry about my President, who has a real opportunity to fly on a more perfect and safer helicopter, and not on antediluvian old stuff!
And Trump flies on the old stuff, because today they do not have such outstanding helicopter designers as our SV Mikheev, as the article already said!

Mr. Milevsky "strategist" Pupkin, Americans are buying Mi-8 to Afghans because MotorSich engines are better than Americans tolerate heat and Afghan dust! And the pilots from MotorSich climbed the Mi-8 above all on their engines. It is necessary to learn a materiel, and then climb with your vulgar comments.

Another sofa strategist. The only thing I agree with is that the 28 is a flying cow. If you have brains like a woman, where do you go with your criticism ??? The president of the United States also flies on an old helicopter, so what? why didn't you turn in their direction ?? Apache, Bell, Agusta, and others, too, with a tail boom pinned to the fuselage, and with a propeller at the back, on the side. Dartanyam or just a moron ???

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