And even the Airborne Forces will be equipped with antediluvian Mi-8 / Mi-35
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And even the Airborne Forces will be equipped with antediluvian Mi-8 / Mi-35

And even the Airborne Forces will be equipped with antediluvian Mi-8 / Mi-35

"As part of the Airborne Forces, an army aviation brigade will be created for the first time, which will include 4 helicopter squadrons"- say News.

The part is planned to form in 2020-2021. New helicopters will be ordered for it. One of the squadrons will be equipped with Mi-35M helicopters. According to experts, the helicopter part will help the paratroopers to act more diversely and more efficiently. Do not forget that the helicopter for paratroopers is not only a transfer, but also fire support ”(vpk.name 19 February 2019).

It is clear that the landing troops with their aircraft will be more mobile and more successful, which is what is required of them. The only trouble is that they are going to be staffed with new-old Mi-8, Mi-35 and Mi-26, which are obsolete for modern warfare in maneuverability (especially near the ground), power supply and compactness!

Military expert Alexei Leonkov believes that the Mi-38 helicopter is the best option instead of the Mi-8: “This helicopter (Mi-38) is much faster than our traditional helicopter samples. It is this helicopter that is currently awaited by airborne troops, as well as special forces, ”summarizes Leonkov.

Seer AV Suvorov as about our Airborne Forces: "Eye, speed, onslaught!"

The Mi-38 helicopter, though newer than the eight, will not add “quickness” to the paratroopers because of the same tail rotor.

And without speed there will be no onslaught! The coaxial Ka-32-10AG helicopter has the same speed characteristics with the Mi-38, but fears of “falling under the tail rotor” when landing troops with working propellers will be excluded. And without problems, there will be simultaneous landing through a side door and open rear doors, which will speed up the landing process, then it really will be: surprise, speed and onslaught!

I deliberately dwell on these truisms, assuming that the ministerial generals do not have helicopter technology consultants, otherwise they would not have put into service the outdated Mi-8, yes Mi-24 / 35, instead of modern Ka-50 / 52 and Ka- 32-10AG.

But after all, helicopters with a tail rotor have another flaw that they never talk about. During the Georgian “Star” aggression, they showed the landing of Abkhazian reservists (260 people on 4's Mi-8 helicopters) on boulders in the Kodori Gorge, and so that the helicopter would not be hooked on any boulder, the soldiers had to jump out him from a height of hovering ~ 1,5, so it is very doubtful that one of the soldiers was not injured after landing on boulders?

And this is how a landing from a helicopter without a tail rotor lands!

For “effective” managers and general designers of the cost centers, the safety of soldiers landing on boulders is an empty sound, so they are strikingly manic to impose their outdated helicopters on the armament of our VKS, but the ministerial generals are responsible for choosing the type of helicopter for their subordinates and staffing VKS modern, i.e. more high-speed, safe and reliable helicopters, and not to drive junk on the conveyor just because it is from the general designers of the cost centers. In the meantime, in my opinion, the ministerial generals chose helicopters for the pilots of the VKS for combat operations on the principle: “Money does not smell”:

"07 March 2018. Kadyrov: The Mi-8 helicopter crashed in Chechnya due to a sharp gust of wind 07 March 2018.

The Mi-8 helicopter fell in Chechnya due to a sudden gust of wind, ”wrote the head of the republic, Ramzan Kadyrov, in his telegram channel. According to him, the aircraft was supposed to deliver border guards to the outpost in the Itum-Kalinsky district.

The helicopter sank to land frontier guards. When it hovered two meters from the ground, due to the strong gust of wind it drifted. Two border guards managed to jump out.

Seven people left inside. The aircraft fell into the abyss from a height of 150 meters. It was reported that at least six people died. Another survivor found at the site of the fall " (Lenta.ru).

The case is tragic and shameful, unfortunately - not a single case, and this is our time when the Kamov people, even in 2001, offered to the series a Ka-32-10 helicopter coaxially, equal in internal fuselage volume with the Mi-8, but superior to all flight characteristics.

The first version of the Ka-32-10 helicopter

Behavior of the helicopter coaxial scheme with gusty wind steadily!

About the difference in the behavior of the Mi and Ka helicopters, the pilot very clearly tells about their reaction to the wind:

“I met this helicopter at the end of distant 80s, when I served in the Syzran Air Force Academy. Our 484 training and helicopter regiment had a mixed squad, and included three squadrons of the Mi-24 and one Ka-27 PL. Kamov machines were used to train future pilots of naval aviation. In flight, the Kamov machine was strikingly different from the single-screw Mi ‑ 8 and Mi ‑ 24 I was used to. Helicopters differed not only constructively, but also by their behavior in the air, especially at low speeds.

Strong, gusty side winds on landing approach “feel skin”, especially on the Mi-24. The helicopter constantly wants to turn to the wind, resists control. Keeping a hovering point in side winds is difficult, Mi ‑ 24, “rears” with every gust. As for Ka-27, that is the feeling that he simply does not notice the wind. In the mode of hovering with strong gusts, it spins like a whirligig on its tip, but does not leave a given point. Moreover, the pilot’s onboard flight-navigation complex (PNK), and of course, the helicopter’s design scheme itself plays a big role in helping the pilot ”(3mv.ru› 49713-morskoy-strazh).

Ka-32-10AG helicopters for paratroopers!

Coaxial helicopters invented as specially for the Airborne Forces! Landing can be very difficult not only in the mountains, but also in cities with high-rise buildings, or in the taiga with tall pines when taking out special forces or wounded, where only coaxial helicopters with their unique maneuverability near the ground and high energy efficiency can be reliable and safe for landing sites in the war does not happen, because war does not provide for scheduled flights.

Supercrocodile Mi-35

“How many do not repeat halva will not become sweeter in the mouth,” and as liberal journalists, under the guidance of general designers of the cost centers, do not try to praise the Mi-28 / 35 helicopters, they still were unsuitable for a modern war, and will remain so! In reference books, their static ceiling is exaggerated to disgrace: Mi-35 to 3150. (Wikipedia, and others.), And in Mi-28H - even higher than 3600, almost like the level of "Black Shark". Is not it? Of course not! Recall the formula HB:

"The thrust of the rotor is proportional to the density of air, swept area HB and inductive speed (rotational speed HB)" (Features of the aerodynamics of the rotor (HB) Poznayka.Org). The radius of the rotor and the peripheral speed - already in the square!

So let's estimate: aren't the references to Mi helicopter gunships lying at all?

The diameter of the rotor Mi-35 / 28 = 17,2. The diameter of the rotor of the helicopter Mi-8 = 21,3. Static ceiling Mi-8 = 1900. (Multi-purpose transport helicopter Mi-8T. Aviarou.rf).

It is clear that the static ceiling of the Mi-35 / 28 will only be less than that of the Mi-8, but no more.

And only in one directory I found a fair figure for the static ceiling of the Mi-35: Nst. = 1750. (Corner of the sky).

Is it possible in real life to make sure: how does the difference in diameters of curlers affect their cravings?

Can.

The diameter of the HB helicopter Mi-6 = 35. and 5lap.

The diameter of the HB helicopter Mi-26 = 32. and 8 blades.

The total power of the engines of the helicopter Mi-6 = 11000l.s.

The total power of the engines of the helicopter Mi-26 = 22800l.s.,

those. Mi-26 in 2 times more powerful and the estimated thrust of the screw should be respectively in 2 times more? In fact, the HB of the Mi-26 helicopter produces thrust only on 30% more than the thrust of the HB of the Mi-6 helicopter!

According to the army test pilot Colonel A. Rudykh, who was testing him in the war in Chechnya, the “black shark” hangs at full height = 4000м.

This is a real attack helicopter, and not Mi-24, which with a combat load in Afghanistan was forced even from its airfield to take off from the nose wheel, because it lacked engine power to take off in a helicopter.

As for the fact that the Mi-35 is capable of carrying 7 people - the reason is significant, but not convincing: in Afghanistan, in Chechnya and in Syria, the Mi-24 / 35 helicopters were used only as attack helicopters, and the landing forces were transferred by Mi-8 helicopters. Therefore, here is the conclusion: the Airborne Forces should be equipped only with Ka-50 / 52 and Ka-32-XNUMHAG helicopters, and ahead: "The new Kamov is being developed in at least two military versions - strike and airborne combat" (naukatehnika.com) and it’s time to stop marking time and “writing out” circles around the Stone Age helicopters from the cost centers, because their tuning helicopters are no longer decent!

“We have the means. We do not have enough mind "(Matroskin the cat)

Of the heavy helicopters today, other than the fabulously expensive Mi-26 is not, therefore, for a start, and they are suitable, and then you should think about restoring faster and more economical Ka-22. I objected: what are you ??? And the engines D-25V power = 5500l.s. no longer available, and 2 disasters he had! What is true is true! It was only calculated for engines with 5900l.s power. and this is his big “+”. And it can be used with success not only in the Airborne Forces, but also in the Arctic, the Arctic and the Far East, where reliability and safety are especially in demand. Klimov has remarkable modern TV7-117В engines with take-off power of 3000л.с. The D-25B engine can be successfully replaced by two TV7-117В and in total the helicopter will receive the power that it was calculated on, and most importantly, with four engines, it will receive unsurpassed reliability, which is the main advantage in the conditions of hostilities and when flying in the North our country! It should be added that four TV7-117 engines are half a ton lighter than two D-25В engines, and in flight they consume less fuel than two D-25В. For what high reliability in case of failure of one engine in flight!

As for his two catastrophes, I am deeply convinced that these were sabotage catastrophes and I very much doubt that someone will prove me to the contrary.

Just do not think that it will be a copy of the Ka-22, because it will only resemble the Ka-22 in size and appearance, but in fact it will be a completely different rotorcraft: the blades instead of the trapezoid will install rectangular with higher efficiency; the bow, I suppose, is also redesigned, because it does not correspond to the time of frontal resistance; pulling screws are also likely to be of a different design, etc. But what I have no doubt is that the cruising speed of the modern Ka-22 will be more than 320k / h, and the price will be many times cheaper than the Mi-26 and only slightly inferior in payload, especially when flying over long distances.

“Catch fish big and small” (from a fairy tale).

It is time to finance the Kamov design bureau on high-speed Ka-92, Ka-102 and modern attack helicopters instead of enrichment with Alla Pugacheva:

“Rostec” gave a Pugacheva 40 million concert ... (news.yandex.ru). At the concert dedicated to the 70 anniversary of the singer, which will be held in the State Kremlin Palace in April of this year, "Helicopters of Russia" decided to allocate as many 40 million rubles. "

Balance: on fine-tuning the Ka-52!

Sergey Viktorovich Mikheev, back in 2007, said that "with proper funding, the Ka-92 can be lifted into the air and even prepared for mass production in five years."

Since then, 11 has passed, during this time, false projects Mi-X1, Rachel and other research and development works of the Milevsky Design Bureau have been financed, from which not a single modern helicopter has emerged, and the Mi-24LL has not been high-speed and will never be because of its old age !

“To carry out work on the Ka-52“ Alligator ”, Kamovians requested 2004 million rubles for 120 year - received 8 million. Milevtsy, received 145 million rubles for the revision of the Mi-28H, almost, as requested. We must assume that there is no money only for the Kamov OKB helicopters ”(polit.ru/article/2005/05/05).

And it’s a pity that the Supreme Commander and the Minister of Defense overlook this financial trick from the general designers of the cost centers.

Another tuning for the Airborne Forces

*** “A part is planned to be formed in 2020-2021. New helicopters will be ordered for it. One of the squadrons will be equipped with Mi-35M helicopters. ”

Let's see what this "new" combat beast has left the gate of the cost center: "An interview with an army aviation pilot who has experience flying helicopters Mi-8, Mi-24, Mi-35М and Mi-28Н".

We have a saying: “You fly lower and live longer”. It is necessary to minimize the time spent by the machine in the enemy's sight, for this purpose they fly at low altitudes. The lower you fly, the more options to slip and hide behind the terrain, behind artificial obstacles, behind the same trees. A small flight altitude provides a stealth approach to the goal, and this is the key to successful assignment.

Yes, at the bottom, too, you can grab a stray bullet and even catch one bullet, the engine can fail, but the chances of such an outcome are much less.

In terms of design (Mi-35M), yes. We say: "crossed the hedgehog with a snake, got the wire." Because in this car the part from "28 th" is taken, the part from "24-ki" remained. What kind of Frankenstein.

According to my feelings, it is less stable in flight. If the Mi-24 flies like an iron, and you don’t need to touch it, this one constantly wants to tilt, make a pitch, as if trying to leave somewhere. He must constantly be kept, to interfere in management more often. On complex aerobatics, this is my personal opinion, it is more pleasant to fly on the "24-ke." Again, the Berkuts abandoned group flights on 35's in favor of 28's.

- Has the speed dropped because of the non-retractable landing gear?

- Fell. Now the maximum speed of his 300 km / h, while the Mi-24 335 km / h was. In horizontal flight, this is not so noticeable, because they fly there at a speed of 200-250 km / h, and the maximum is needed for output from a dive. The greater the range of the speed of the withdrawal from the dive, the longer you can keep the target in sight, carry out shooting, and later bring the car out of the dive.

I would not say that all these flaws are somehow clearly felt, but all together they make themselves felt.

(“I am a helicopter pilot.” Part One - Denis Mokrushin 28 November 2015).

This is the next “outstanding” combat helicopter from the cost center design bureau that our airborne troops will be arming instead of the real outstanding Black Shark Ka-50 and Alligator Ka-52.

Vitaly Belyaev, especially for Avia.pro

Oleg! Again "I heard a bell, but did not know where he came from." The Mi-8 really landed one wheel on a rock. But there was this landing opposite the rocky dwellings, in one of which, according to reconnaissance data, a council of high commanders from deceptionists was held. It is from this Mi-8 from the grenade launcher that these high leaders of the dushmans were destroyed. At the same time, the height of the hang-up there fully corresponded to the static ceiling of the Mi-8, which was empty and had nothing more than a couple of fighters and a gunner on board. At that time, he had a “force”: the 2 TV2-117 engine.

Not for printing: dear administrator, if I am forbidden to print and comment - please inform me and I will not disturb you, but I can’t organically stand a lie, especially when it comes from men!

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It's all nonsense here ... Although, now you can calm down ... Smerdyukov will do everything like the right administrator. I wonder what time it cost Boeing, Airbus, Lockheed Martin, etc.?

Leonid 11 in May 2019: “They gave Milevtsi / they didn’t give Kamovites ... Didn’t they think about whether there is anyone to construct / build helicopters in Arsenyev? Will the money given out return? "
On these issues, the relevant members of the government should be sore and, last but not least, ordinary citizens! But what seemed unnatural in resolving these issues seemed to me:
1. 2001 year Kamov General Designer Sergey Mikheev:
“..., the new helicopter can be developed, certified and put into mass production at the Kumertau aircraft plant in the next 3 years.
Ka-32-10 is a deep modernization of the Ka-32 helicopter, created on the basis of the anti-submarine Ka-27. It has an extended cab designed for the 24 passenger. Load capacity Ka-32-10 inside the fuselage 4 tons, on the external sling - 7 tons.
The new machine will be offered to customers at the price of 3,8-4,5 million dollars. ”
The project is frozen by the lack of customers?
2. 19 January 2016.
Deputy Minister of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation Yuri Slusar reported that Russia plans to allocate from the state budget of about 7,5 billion rubles, which will be used to develop long-term high-speed helicopter.
Money is allocated, but there is no “return”!

They gave to the people of Milarev / they did not give to the Kamovites ... But didn’t they think about whether there is anyone to construct / build helicopters in Arsenyev? Will the money given out return?

Many-sided Vladimir, write to us the correct formula, and not deliver here about light and heavy soils.

The article is one-sided. One can see the lobbying of the Kamovtsev Machine. The author in the aerodynamics of the helicopter NV to say the least weak. The formula was rewritten from the textbook and that is not entirely correct. The physics of the process does not understand at all. Since when is the speed of the end of the blade called inductive? Each car has pros and cons. Kamov machines are good where small dimensions are important. The use of Kamov machines (coaxial scheme) when planting on light soils is problematic due to the high flow rate of the rejected HB (around 30 m / s versus 10 m / s in Mi-8). Kamov machines are noisier, inside the helicopter the levels of vibration and noise are much higher than in Milevskie. Both those and other cars should fly.

The author is not a dealer of Kamovo helicopters by any chance?

Not rich! Kamovtsy work, but the Milians are on duty at aviation sites - they are not up to helicopters!

We work, but during business hours from 8 to 17. As usual normal hard workers, according to the Labor Code. Milevtsev constantly at work, I also see (we are sitting in the same building), it means that they work.
Someone who does not care for our helicopters is Vitaly, for your “articles” are disgracing our helicopters.
It would be a matter of doing something, and not scribbling from one time to another and the same dreary.

Haha, Vitaly, you are as always in your style. And you have excellent logic, if Kamovets writes badly about Vitaly's articles, then he is a Milanese.
And Milevtsev your articles are not hysteria, they just laugh at you. They are always waiting for your articles to have some fun and then come and walk on us.
Kamovtsam just ashamed of you. Your articles disgrace our glorious KB.

If I understand correctly, then my articles just reach the goal, that's why the Milovites are hysterical!

Since when has the Milanese become a Kamowist?

Vitaly, do not disgrace our KB them. Kamov their idiotic articles. Above us, the Milevtsi are constantly queuing for your articles.

Maybe enough to carry nonsense instead of business comments?

Bullshit.
"Amateur mechanic" does not understand at all what is what ..
Mi 8 is if not the best. It is one of the best helicopters in the world in its class. Therefore, it is actively bought all over the world. Moreover, modifications in reliability and durability of the airframe are inferior to the original version.
The Milev company is the best helicopter company.
And Kamov makes fakes. For example, the so-called. "Black Shark", about which they tryndeli so much time ... Money to the wind, that's what it's called. From the fact that there simply was not enough education and intelligence to know that you cannot do a combat attack helicopter with one pilot. Need an operator. When it came to them, they started ka-xnumx. The machine is worse a priori of others in this class, there is no need to be a great aerodynamic to understand this.
In general, now the company Kamov - sucks. And giving money there is money down the drain.

Change your "Nick."

Once upon a time, MI-8 regularly carried cargo to us on the 3000 glacier, hanging. This is not a ceiling.

When I really want to argue, but I don’t have anything to argue with, then fabrications like Babskiy gossip begin: “And he is being led with Kamov ...”
Alexander 03 Apr 2019 to 05: 5
How much did you get paid to the Kamov design bureau, for what you would write similar articles against Mil design bureau?
Mi-8 23 Apr 2019 to 16: 21
And the truth - how much do they pay? I think not much, if such long Kam ears stick out of each article. More carefully it is necessary like that ... (the above article).
Mi-8 23 Apr 2019 to 16: 15
Vitya, where are you from such a nimble pilot? Where and what was flying? It seems, you fly in the Kamovskaya office on a goose feather. Come on, answer me, EXPERT in tactics and BP AA.
And “think” that it is not necessary to distort the Russian language.

Andor and Michael!
Operation in the Kodori Valley (2008) - Wikipedia
ru.wikipedia.org ›wiki ... in_Codor_s_ (2008)
As of the beginning of August 2008, the upper part of the Kodori Valley remained the only territory of Abkhazia, which was controlled by the central authorities of Georgia. According to General Shamanov, on August 10, during the Georgian-South Ossetian conflict of 2008, the Russian forces had a difficult situation and it was necessary to delay a part of the Georgian troops to the west. ... In the area of ​​the Kodori Gorge from 10: 00 to 14: A helicopter assault of Abkhaz reservists was landed (00 people on 260 Mi-4 helicopters). There are separate fighting. In 8: 4 BTGr 00 of the Airborne Regiment began a march on Khaishi and in the evening took control of the entrance to the Kodori Gorge from Georgia

As for the Ka-32-10AG landing on boulders, it is enough for him to put one wheel on a boulder and keep the car in a half-weighted condition and the paratroopers will quietly leave the helicopter.
For a helicopter with a tail rotor, such a maneuver near the rocks is very dangerous!
Well, if you and Mikhail are not pilots and some phrases are incomprehensible to you, then ask in normal language and I will explain to you.
And they landed 260 people for 12-13 races. Buy a calculator and count, if you have not forgotten how to count before 1000!

Vitya, where are you from such a nimble pilot? Where and what was flying? It seems, you fly in the Kamovskaya office on a goose feather. Come on, answer me, EXPERT in tactics and BP AA.

No need to judge by yourself, and if you disagree with something, write about the case, and do not invent something like female gossip!

* showed the landing of Abkhazian reservists (260 people on 4's Mi-8 helicopters) on boulders
--------------
260 / 4 = 65
this is how it is possible with the capacity of the Mi-8 24 ...

photo amers:
* And this is how a landing from a helicopter takes off without a tail rotor!
---------------
well, this boulders would also not have sat down, albeit without a tail screw ...
and jump from the 1.5 meter to the paratrooper God himself ordered ... :)

I get on some kind of author, he is still an ixperd ...

Dear Anatoly, I am not talking about the “Ka” -shki and “Mi” -shki, but specifically about the Ka-32-XNUMHAG, which has a commensurate fuselage with Mi-10, i.e. the same height of the cargo compartment, but in all surpasses the same Mi-8А171: both in carrying capacity, and in speed, and even more so in safety. But the worst Mi-2А171 instead of the best Ka-2-32AG is launched in the series. Hence the question: why should our pilots fly the worst helicopters when there are much better ones?
Further: for the sake of which, again, should our pilots fly on the long obsolete Mi-26, when big money is allocated for the CB cost centers? And how long can the state be robbed by the Dear Mi-26: with its 600 000rub. in one flying hour (2013), it must not be transported by 13 today. on the Bureya reservoir, and on 20t. and at a speed of at least 320 / h.
But this old one continues to be mass-produced only because it is from the CB of the cost centers and only!

It is a pity that the aftor is not the general designer. On four Mi-8 260 people! Super!

Guys let's be friends!!! We will not find fault with Mi-shki and Ka-we, for each helicopter there is a work. Yes, Ka-shka perfectly weighs and is ideal for rescue operations, but the eight and its modifications are indispensable for landing operations. How to place a platoon of paratroopers in Ka-me with its low and narrow cargo cab, at best, a detachment .. The landing of eight, especially AMTSh with two sliding doors and a ramp, is much faster, and the ramp (cargo doors) on 32 Ka -me was not and no ...
And about the rescue operations, and work on the external sling is the work of Ka-we.

Alexander Shlykov 10 Apr 2019 to 09: 22
You are making a breeze: “The commission found that the accident occurred due to a broken main rotor blade and its subsequent impact on the end beam, which excluded the crew’s impact on the helicopter’s controllability. ". If the beam is blown away - there are few chances, although Smirnov (a normal man) planted eight on the Terek, with a break in the HV.I.

A true liberal can be seen from afar! Shlykov, while I was working in the same squadron with Semyon Yavtysy, and unlike you, I know what I am writing.

Here is the story of a man who was at the site of his disaster immediately after the fall:
“This is a Mi-4 catastrophe that occurred on 16 March 1972. The commander of this board was Semyon Nikolaevich Yavtysy. The reason is purely technical - a broken propeller blade.
Nearby the rest of the crew. The wrists of Semyon Yavtysky's hands were broken to the bone, until the last moment he tried to land a helicopter. But in the history of aviation, when the blade breaks off, there was no such case that someone landed a helicopter. This is simply impossible to do. The effort of the hydraulic system to 500 kilograms a person simply can not overcome. The young strong guys who knew and loved our northern sky well died: the second pilot was 22 of the year, Semyon Yavtysky and Fyodor Klimchenkov were 30 years old.
Viktor LAZAREV, former commander of the Mi-4 helicopter, city of Vladimir, 27 of October 2004, ”
And I read your conclusion on Wikipedia.
As for the eight on the Terek, even here you brought an example from the fact that you didn’t understand anything in the flight business, you still don’t understand: under certain conditions it is possible to make a safe landing for the crew when the tail rotor failed. I would ask my test pilots. And secondly, I should know about centrifugal force and without any outsiders!

This is not even funny. If you misunderstand something, then two and a half blades, this is the total area of ​​damage to the HB, and not just the two blades wholly flew off. put the Mi-1995 in a partial break of the blades HB, caught a crocodile and caught everything alive on it. on Mi 26 - no options. Although, given the landing approach ... But there are officers ialnoe conclusion first break, then the beam, and not vice versa.

Shlykov, in my opinion, this is your phrase: “Mi-8 survives when two blades break, Mi-24 - one and a half (the practice of Afgan)”. Not with damaged blades, but “with a break” of 2's and 1,5 blades! Yes, and the "practice of Afgan" attributed!
Alexander Shlykov 07 Apr 2019 to 08: 31
Pilot with a bluff. A coaxial system is the best friend of a vortex ring. In the mountains, the Kashki are practically unsuitable because of the unpredictability of the air flow. 8 - one and a half (the practice of Afgan)

Shlykov, everything is the opposite for you: a non-coaxial scheme failed Vorobyov, and in this case Vorobiev failed a coaxial scheme.
And the damage to the blades are different. If you were a pilot, you wouldn’t carry this nonsense!

Alexander Shlykov 07 Apr 2019 to 08: 31
Pilot with a bluff. A coaxial system is the best friend of a vortex ring. In the mountains, the Kashki are practically unsuitable because of the unpredictability of air flows. When the blades break even partially, there are fewer chances to land the helicopter, Mi-8 survives when two blades break, Mi- 24 - one and a half (the practice of Afgan).
This is the kind of nonsense about the rotors to read for the first time. In Naryan Mara in March 1972goda was a Mi-4 crash, commanded by Semyon Yavtysy, the only pilot - Nenets. He was a remarkable man and a pilot, but with a descent in the tundra from the main rotor blade at a distance 0,75м. from the end broke the blade. Crew members were killed in the air by the vibration of the rotor. It is understandable that the centrifugal force of the blade Mi-4 for tearing = 25т., The weight of the blade = 120кг. Mi-8 has blade weight = 140kg. And more rotations of the main rotor, especially Mi-24, and further this nonsense about landing Mi-8 with torn off 2 blades does not want to continue.
The Mi-24 did not arrive with the blade allegedly torn off on 1 / 3. Unfortunately, this nonsense was voiced once by the manager of the cost center, the former commander-in-chief of army aviation. In addition to dirty PR against modern helicopters coaxial schemes in these fictions there is nothing!

Perhaps this is not about tearing off a part of the blade, but about tearing off the cellular compartments, without damaging the side member, this happened more than once. here without options ...

You are making a breeze: “The commission found that the accident occurred due to a broken main rotor blade and its subsequent impact on the end beam, which excluded the crew’s impact on the helicopter’s controllability. ". If the beam is blown away - there are few chances, although Smirnov (a normal man) planted eight on the Terek, with a break in the HV.I.

Dear Yuri, I found another comment on your comment on experienced Mi-board equipment and I highly recommend it to be read to raise the outlook on military helicopters.
If it seems not enough, I will write another.

Ranger
"Alligator" - what we need! I am surprised by some kind of pathological hatred of Ka-50 people who never fought in the mountains and saw this helicopter only at an air show, in pictures or on a television screen. As a young lieutenant, I fought in Afghanistan, I was lucky - it was lucky! - to take part in the shooting of the film “Black Shark” in Uzbekistan, then there was mountainous Tajikistan, Chechnya. He ended his military career as a fully mature officer after the second counter-terrorist operation in the North Caucasus. In fact, I haven’t been out of mountain battles for almost twenty years. And who, if not to me, knows what combat helicopters of fire support we have needed all these years. Precisely such, as “Black shark”! In general, only helicopters of the coaxial scheme fly confidently in the mountain gorges. And if in Afghanistan the special forces had coaxial Ka-29 instead of Mi-8 - we would solve our tasks much more efficiently. The Mi-8 is a good car, but the coaxial scheme works better in the mountains. The pilots with whom I spoke and who flew in the mountains on both the Ka-50 and the Mi-24, clearly tended to favor the Kamov machine. And to us, scouts, the “Black Sharks” would be just like air fighters of a point fire strike. Very short time, but I also worked with the combat attack group of helicopters, which is written in the article. It really was an attempt to implement the revolutionary tactics of the use of combat helicopters. How did the Mi-24 fly in Afghanistan and Chechnya? How to fly even the newest Mi-28H? In pairs! Lead and driven, as if we live and fight in the mid-twentieth century, and not at the beginning of the twenty-first. Two helicopters are flying and the four heads of their pilots and operators are spinning at a breakneck pace in all directions. Have time to see the enemy on the ground and from the ZSU queue fired into the belly! And how are these helicopters being aimed at the target? Here is a typical monologue of the air carrier in, consider, open air: “Tenth! Come out to the right and above that slide, then head for the lonely tree and hit the dudula in the middle of the gorge! ” Stone Age - otherwise you will not tell. And how was the same task solved in the case of the use of Ka-50 in the shock group? As written in the article. We, the scouts, gave the coordinates of a well-disguised object of the militants, which was required to destroy with a point strike, and not with a massed bomb-assault. Our report was processed in the headquarters, checked with others, and if a decision was made, the Ka-50 flew around with a relief around the ground, in fact climbs on the ground - it was neither visible nor audible. At the point of impact, he made a combat reversal, destroyed the target and immediately disappeared. No free hunting, the time of which ended at the beginning of the Second World War! The pilot only controls the machine and shoots, the goal for him is found by those to whom it is supposed to be the scouts. Unfortunately, there have been only a few such percussion operations in Chechnya. It was an experiment, we understood that. And they were confident that the experiment would develop, in our, army view, it fully justified itself. And yet, the Ka-50 worked in complete radio silence mode, the entire exchange of information went on in the closed telecode mode. The figure worked! That was ten years ago. And in our General Staff, for some reason now they think that we are still only going towards digital control. Already passed ... Just "Night Hunter" was not ready for such management. I am very pleased that the Ka-52 has broken through the zone of alienation and will still go to the troops. Let the ground workers be content with the classic Mi-28H, and the special forces can’t wait for the Alligators as the vehicle of support and air control. And I want to repeat - the mud on the Ka-50 and Ka-52 is poured by those who have never seen these helicopters in real work.

Fully agree

Participating in the shooting of the advertising film "Black Shark", its main minus should be known. In his demonstration, by the way, Kvachkov took part - Ka-50 needed to "highlight" the target. In the mountains, the method shown in the film is not applicable. And in the x ... I'm a fuss?

For its time, the Mi-24 was a unique helicopter, and the Mi-8 is a good and reliable helicopter, but there is no eternal hardware and today there are incomparably better helicopters, so you should not dwell on the long-obsolete technology.

And secondly, to take off in difficult places, as we say in Afghanistan, it is not the flight engineer who takes off and sits down, but the helicopter commander and flight mechanic does not always feel the characteristics of takeoff and landing.

And the fact that the pilots were forced to fly up on the Mi-24 in Afghanistan from the nose wheel was a proven fact!

Listen to what I tell you, before you write such a "smart" article, learn how to match the hardware, I taught her 3 of the year and 20 for years, then I exploited the flight engineer and fought on it in one very hot country, so I know very well the possibilities and Mi-24 and Mi-8 all modifications

It is not clear: why my comments are not printed again?

And things, dear Igor - Oleg, should be called by their names and do not fall into hysterics from this!

Nobody gets hysterical, they were my colleagues, and I’d better know what happened there, and not what the Kadyrov and the crap author wrote there (about the “disgraceful” case)

Oleg, Chinok, only you called the attack aircraft, this is a purely transport helicopter.

Oleg 05 Apr 2019: “24-ku was raised on an aircraft, not because the engines do not pull, but because of the height”.
What was there with him there wasn’t any pressure — it didn’t matter to the pilots! But it wasn’t: “It was the ceiling that sharply limited the possibility of using the Mi-24 in Afghanistan - the static ceiling of the“ twenty-fours ”of the latest modifications was just 1300 meters,
The scheme that most fully meets the requirement of achieving high flight characteristics was Kamov's "branded" coaxial. It eliminated the loss of power on the tail rotor, giving the 12% more traction, was compact, had no cross-links in the control channels and, with aerodynamic symmetry, allowed to perform such maneuvers that are not too tough for regular helicopters. In flight from the ground, especially in the forest, in the mountains or among buildings, the pilot was not afraid to hurt anything with the tail rotor (it is very difficult to control because of its location and distance from the pilot's seat). All this was subsequently confirmed during the testing of the Ka-29 airborne helicopter in Afghanistan — the static ceiling of the new machine was 3700 m. (RusArmy.com Ka-24 multipurpose attack helicopter).
Those. Under these conditions, the “black shark” would fly up like a helicopter!

To the formula: if you have another formula, write a reference to the textbook or the author.
I'll try to write and I, if it passes, but from it you will not be easier: Tn.v. = (33,25 DNη◦ξ) ²⁄ ³
If you are not satisfied, I will write another one!

You probably do not know, but the Ka-29, Mi-24 and Mi-8 MTV are identical engines.

Pilot with a bluff. A coaxial system is the best friend of a vortex ring. In the mountains, the Kashki are practically unsuitable because of the unpredictability of the air flow. 8 - one and a half (the practice of Afgan). The coaxial system works disgustingly at the bottom, because the earth pushes away and when the pitch changes, the overlap helps a lot. .In favor of d lu it doesn’t go, because everyone has his own nisha. Well, we don’t have helicopters right now, so you don’t have to push Kamov machines to where they aren’t good. So far, Mi-24 and Mi-8 are better not. I will add another option - all your formulas will devour real combat, weather conditions and crew training.

Another helicopter “specialist” with “facts” thought up on a sore head.

It is you, young man, who take the facts from the Internet, and we - from practice. It was necessary to work with the Milevsky machines and with the Kamovskys. I communicated a lot with the pilots "on the glass", and this is what they don’t write about and what they don’t learn in school. Somehow I heard the phrase: "They teach, everyone ...., in fact, the aerodynamics of the flight of a helicopter has not yet been studied," was a good pilot - the coaxial system failed.

Completely illiterate, you only tell tales to teenagers what moral right you have to discuss what is better and what is antediluvian, when you do not exploit it and you do not know all the possibilities of technology. And it’s not for you to comment on the catastrophe that occurred in Chechnya, if you do not know all the causes and conditions !!!! Such hacks need to drive! with with

24-ku raised on an aircraft, not because the engines do not pull, but because of the altitude. The mountains are high above sea level and the air density is low. Although with the 1700, it can take off on a helicopter, but it will devour more fuel in takeoff mode. And Chinok, whom you like so much, is firstly not a ground attack aircraft, and secondly, from the same altitude it takes off only by plane. The formula that you gave will not give you a real lift force of the Screw. It is generally not considered so ...

Fighter Ivan, the author served in Syzran, and you - near Syzran, so you heard the bell, but did not understand - where did he come from! We have the same TV26-3 engines on all helicopters except Mi-117, and today VK-2500 went to the series! Be healthy fighter Ivan!

Vitali - You are a brazen liar and populist. "... The engines we have on all the helicopters, except for the Mi-26, are the same TV3-117 ..." - You have been brazenly lying about it. Mi-8T - TV2-117, Mi-8МТ (Mi-24) - TV3-117. Moreover, TV3-117 differ greatly in modifications and series. So there is a TV3-117В series (VM, VMA, VM2), these are high-altitude engines which, unlike other TV3-117, power drops start with 2000, etc. etc. They all have different characteristics and sometimes significant. Lied here - and lied on. There is no truth in your writing - for the ordinary people will go to eat. You kind of Navalny from aviation.

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