Kamov vs. Mile: What do the Russian KB see as a future attack helicopter?
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Kamov vs. Mile: What do the Russian KB see as a future attack helicopter?

Kamov vs. Mile: What do the Russian KB see as a future attack helicopter?

"It is worth noting that the Ministry of Defense of Russia has already announced the beginning of research work on the program" Perspective high-speed helicopter "(PSV). Then both KBs failed to fulfill all the tasks set - although their projects were ready to develop the given speed, but their maintenance and operating costs significantly exceeded the permissible ceiling.

However, the "Milevs" in the first attempt advanced somewhat further. To refine new ideas for a high-speed helicopter, they converted one of their Mi-24 into a flying laboratory.

One of the most noticeable differences was the new single cabin with low aerodynamic resistance. This solution significantly reduces the weight of the car, since it is the share of the cabin that accounts for most of the booking of the entire helicopter. That's only possible to predict in advance that the military will not go to reduce the crew.

Even when the legendary "Black Shark" was created, KB Kamov applied this method. In general, the fighting qualities of the car did not suffer from this, only pilots of the extra class could pilot it. In addition, the presence of a double cab is an indispensable requirement of many foreign buyers for Russian technology. Not all countries can prepare excellent pilots, so they prefer not to burden the pilot with navigational duties.

However, on the "laboratory" Mi-24 were tested and not so obvious changes. So, when creating PSV designers have developed a fundamentally new blade. Later they were used to upgrade the Mi-28 "Night Hunter". As a result of this innovation, the maximum speed of the car increased by 10%, and cruising speed - by 13%. Thus, the Mil Design Bureau already has today the practice of real testing of individual parts of the new machine.

Before "kamovtsami" the task is much more difficult. The fact is that the coaxial scheme gives the pilot advantages in maneuvering, but it has significant limitations on the maximum speed, as high air resistance arises. In this regard, designers intend to "make a move with a knight" and apply the new machine pushing screws for horizontal acceleration " (VPK.name 06.12.2017).

Which is more expensive?

... "although their projects were ready to develop the given speed, but their maintenance and operating costs significantly exceeded the permissible ceiling. "

... First, "their project" from the cost center to them. Mikhail Mil is not ready to “develop a given speed” even today, and secondly it’s very interesting: who is one of the “effective” managers from Russian Helicopters able to calculate the costs of the Ka-92 project, if they are in NULI aviation , and in helicopters - even more so! But the main thing is that it is not accessible to them because of the secrecy, but the Kamov people themselves have long overlooked everything, therefore they are proposing this project for development.

In Wikipedia, the Ka-92 cost was voiced = $ 30million, while the Mi-38, which is significantly inferior to the Ka-92, in particular, in 1,5 times, is offered to customers today at a price of $ 40mln: “Imaginary achievements and real holding failures ... " (Edition of "Our Version". 11.04.2016).

Forward to the past!

... "However, the" milovtsy "in the first attempt advanced somewhat further. To work out new ideas for a high-speed helicopter, they converted one of their Mi-24 into a flying laboratory. "

... If the Mil designers and are moving “somewhat further”, then only in reverse gear, because with phantom projects like Mi-X1 “advance” does not work. The single-cab Mi-24 reached speeds in 400c / h. only gene director of "effective managers" Alexander Boginsky. With 400 / h and more, he will have such a tilting right lurch due to the difference in flow rates of the left and right sides of the rotor that no control knob is enough to eliminate it, nor will the power of VK-2500 engines to accelerate the helicopter to 400k / h which are slightly stronger than the old TV3-117. And then we must understand that the record speed on the Mi-24 in 368k / h. achieved at Max. engine power and a lightweight helicopter, while a high-speed rotor at this speed should work with normal weight and cruise mode.

Another thing is the helicopter of the coaxial circuit, in which the rotors in flight rotate in opposite directions, compensating their heeling moments without the intervention of the pilot. For example, on a Ka-50 helicopter, test pilots reached a speed = 460 / h, which is not achievable for a classic helicopter, no matter what “flying platform” it was called! From here for Ka-92 cruising speed 420-430к / ч. - not “noodles” like Mi-X1, but the real reality!

For research flights, gene. designer S.V. Mikheev sees helicopter Ka -50

with an installed pushing screw from the rear, or installation of additional propellers on the wings, due to which the helicopter will increase the speed by 100-150 / h. (320к / ч. + 100к / ч. = 420к / ч), i.е. speed equal to 400km / h. will have it cruising, while the pinned Mi-24 will be able to fly around this speed on a gasp and therefore the required results from such research flights that raises a lot of questions.

From the evil one!

... "Even with the creation of the legendary" Black Shark ", Kamov's KB used this technique. In general, the fighting qualities of the car did not suffer from this, only pilots of the extra class could pilot it.

... It is strange that the author in this matter leads the narrative "upside down", because in piloting a helicopter with a tail rotor is more complicated than a coaxial one, it is the tail screw that spoils the buzz during piloting from hovering to landing. Increasing the power of the engines for take-off, respectively, increases the reactive torque of the rotor. To neutralize this moment, the pilot gives the right leg, keeping the helicopter from turning. To prevent the helicopter from moving from the tail rotor to the left, the pilot rejects the control knob to the right. The flight of this helicopter because of the tail rotor pull is carried out with a slight left slip or with a slight right roll.

The coaxial helicopter does not have a tail rotor and there is no need for additional work by the controls, its piloting is similar to an aircraft one and the author's conclusions on "extra-class pilots" are most likely from the cost center designers who adhere to the principle: "If you want to annoy Ka-50, accuse him in the shortcomings of Mi-28 »!

Again the "noodles"!

... That's just you can predict in advance that the military will not go to reduce the crew. "

... Do not "guess", because "flying platform" is not a high-speed product and is not suitable for mass production in its essence. Against the Kamov single "went" not the military, but the general designers of the MVZ them. ML Mil and their help is the United States in the person of Sergei Sikorsky, who in Moscow personally punched the replacement of Ka-50 with Mi-28. The American envoy was stronger than our military and as a result of the ex. Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov, instead of the outstanding Ka-50 "Black Shark", was put into service with a mediocre, and even raw Mi-28H. As for the military, from lieutenant to colonel everyone was in single Ka-50, who showed high combat qualities in the second Chechen war. They (the military) are still on his side today, which cannot be said about ministerial generals, military helicopters far from work, but close to corruption.

Instead of the pilot-operator, the "Black Shark" uses automatic equipment, which, as everyone knows, is quicker than a man and more accurate! And in general the whole world turns to unmanned aerial vehicles, and the designers of the MVZ, managers from the "Russian Helicopters" and ministerial generals, serve multi-local attack helicopters !? Therefore, unicity is not a reason, but just an inappropriate reason for replacing the best helicopter in the world with a dead Mi-28. Sturmovik Il-2 with one pilot in the VOV. was the most massive combat aircraft in history (Wehrmacht soldiers called it "Schwarzer Tod"), who fought at higher speeds and also on flying flights. The Su-25 attack aircraft still flies with a single-seat cabin, although its speed in 2 exceeds the speed of helicopters: it confidently finds targets and also flawlessly destroys them with the same BFEO as Ka-50.

Journalistic "course of the horse"

... "Before the "Kamovtsy" the task is much more difficult. The fact is that the coaxial scheme gives the pilot the advantage of maneuvering, but it has significant limitations on maximum speed, as there is a high frontal air resistance. In this regard, the designers intend to "make course of the horse"and apply the pushing screws on the new machine for horizontal acceleration."

... Kamovtsevs have no “knight's turn” and there is no particular difficulty in this matter, because a coaxial helicopter does not have critical rolls with increasing speed, like in the Mi-24. Increase the speed after 350 / h. problematic to the helicopter of any scheme and coaxial, too, because with a further increase in speed, the efficiency of the rotor and thrust is sufficiently low for it only enough to support its weight. But without problems, you can increase the speed of the helicopter due to the additional pushing screw. In this case, for the licked Mi-24, the proverb says: "The game is not worth the candle!".

By the way, the front resistance is less from the coaxial screw than from the tail boom with the tail screw of the Mi helicopter, moreover, a fairing is mounted on the high-speed coaxial helicopters between the screws, which in general reduces this resistance to none.

Caring for state interests is a relic of the past!

I think that the interest of the "effective managers" of the holding to PSV is primarily a pocket-financial one: "In 2016, it is planned to conclude an agreement with JSC" $ MVZ named after. ML Mil "on" the development of a prospective commercial medium-range commercial helicopter "costing 207 million rubles. The total amount of project financing is 45,6 billion rubles. for the period from 2016 to 2024 year, including the planned amount of budget financing - 29,7 billion rubles. (65%). " (Annual report of "Rostvertol" for 2015 year - MIC .name 01.07.2016).

The paradox: money in the cost center for R & D comes in large quantities and with an enviable regularity, but from 1980y of the last century new models from them are not and are not foreseen: "Chemezov: an experienced prototype of a high-speed combat helicopter will make the first flight in 2019. ) ".

If half of this money went to the Kamov design bureau, then real high-speed and very necessary our Army and State Ka-92 and Ka-102 would fly. Yes, and attack helicopters would be improved, because both Ka-50 / 52 are getting older, and to overtake them today in this matter The US can not only because they do not have enough experience in coaxial helicopters and there are no such brilliant designers as our Sergei Viktorovich Mikheev. But they are already experiencing their high-speed, and sooner or later they will be released serially, and philologists, sociologists and bankers who direct our helicopter industry, in fact, simulate our helicopter-building progress under various pretexts.

From the history of the confrontation of Mi-28 and Ka-50.

30 August 2016 Vladimir Voronov

"Requiem for Mi-28N" | Radio Liberty

Why Russian helicopter gunships fall

None of the wars can not do without losses, but aviation losses are most painful, especially if the fighting is conducted with an enemy who does not have aviation or modern air defense facilities.

When 8 July 2016 year in Syria, a Russian attack helicopter was shot down, in the Russian information space a discussion arose only about how and from what exactly it was shot down. Still there was a pointless dispute, which type was the helicopter - Mi-24, Mi-25 or the "most modern" Mi-35. Although, in fact, what's the difference: Mi-25 is an export version of Mi-24D for the poor, and the "newest" Mi-35 is an export version of Mi-24VM for wealthy customers. All these helicopters are distinguished by variants of weapons and equipment, but in fact it is one and the same machine, obsolete at the end of the 1980-ies and presenting a threat today only for lightly armed insurgents. And even then not always.

However, this is a fairly common practice: for wrong decisions of some people - in this case, about adopting a particular system - others pay their lives. And the most horrible thing is when these decisions are dictated by narrowly departmental, if not skim interests. It is to the category of the latter, most likely, the story of the adoption of the Mi-28 and Ka-50 / 52 percussion helicopters. This epic began almost 40 years ago and has not actually finished yet.

Commander-in-Chief of the Soviet Air Force, Pavel Kutakhov, judging that no upgrades to the Mi-24 would help, initiated the creation of a new-generation combat helicopter. 16 December 1976 of the year appeared a closed joint resolution of the Central Committee of the CPSU and the USSR Council of Ministers No. 1043-361 on the development of a promising combat helicopter.

Milevtsy were absolute monopolists in the development and production of helicopters for the Ground Forces, possessing a powerful lobby in the apparatus of the Central Committee and the Ministry of Defense. Apparently, it is because of the OKB im. Milya decided not to bother: the product they presented was better than Mi-24, but, as it turned out, not much. As for the managed and unguided missile weapons, the Mi-28 remained at the level of the Mi-24: the characteristics of anti-tank guided missiles (ATGMs) and unguided aircraft missiles (NAR) did not change, and new weapons were not created under Mi-28. Instead of a combat vehicle of the future design bureau. Mile offered a completely crude helicopter of the previous generation, to replace which Mi-24 did not make any sense.

Flight and maneuvering characteristics of Ka-50 were also higher than those of Mi-28. Testers admired the ability of Ka-50 to make a sharp turn at high speeds already at 180 degrees - in an air duel it allowed to suddenly meet the catching opponent in a volley blow to the "forehead". To this day, such a tactical device is beyond the power of any other helicopter in the world, except Ka-50 / Ka-52. Ka-50 impressed the military and high operational efficiency: it could operate on unequipped platforms and in isolation from the main bases to the crescent, and instead of 50-70 lubrication points, as on other models, they had only three. For the first time in the history of helicopter construction, the car was equipped with a catapult seat: in an extreme situation, the pilot could leave the helicopter at altitudes from almost zero to 4100 meters, during the execution of any maneuver and any figure. As the general designer of Kamov, Sergei Mikheev, explained to me in his personal conversation, the design bureau originally formulated the task of retaining a qualified flight crew. After all, the fastest-moving class is the class of qualified pilots. Because there appeared a catapult chair, and a new approach to booking - a single armored cabin.

Once the attack, then you will run into the fire. And we set the task: to make the pilot's cabin so that it could withstand bullets of the caliber 12,7 mm and 23 mm projectile. In the technical requirements of the military it was written: armored protection against the hit of an American projectile of the caliber 20 mm and ours - 23 mm. And we did it. "" Along the way, "all the vital systems of the helicopter were repeatedly duplicated: one will strike one fragment - there is a backup.

In autumn 1983, the results of the tender were summed up, and the Air Force Commander announced the decision: Ka-50 was chosen for further tests and serial production. And the Milevites were offered to use the Mi-28 developments to create a more advanced modification of the Mi-24. Then the main intrigue unfolded.

It's no secret that every new model adopted for service meant rain from Lenin and State prizes, gold stars of Heroes of Socialist Labor, orders, ranks and ranks. But, most importantly, the allocation of huge funds for mass production. In the Soviet military-industrial complex everything was settled long ago and was divided, in each sphere, its monopolists, "strangers" were not allowed to this trough. So all the tenders and tests were usually a pure fiction: the decision to adopt one or another model was adopted backstage, often regardless of the real combat qualities of the product. The decisive role was always played by official ties and the proximity of the leadership of the design bureaus to the highest party elite. And here - a fiasco Milev, who for decades have been enjoying the charms of monopolists in the field of helicopters for army aviation! Of course, this was perceived as an encroachment on the scope of the OKB im. Mil, for the protection of which immediately rallied the entire bureaucracy.

Lobbyists OKB them. Milya untied the death of the commander-in-chief of the Kutakhov Air Force in December 1984. The losers immediately appealed to the new commander-in-chief with a complaint about the bias of the contest. Given the powerful ties of the Milovites in the apparatus of the CPSU Central Committee, the new Air Force command did not risk aggravation: without repealing the decision, it agreed once again to carry out comparative flight tests of both vehicles. Only these tests did not reveal anything fundamentally new: Ka-50 again turned out to be the leader, and Mi-28 did not even surpass Mi-24.

Trying to discredit the opponent, the OKB them. Milya launched a campaign of black PR, abundantly launching information about the authorities that blackened the product of competitors, although only the customer had the right to compare helicopters with each other. The leadership of the MVZ simply rolled the slander against the USSR Minister of Defense and the Central Committee of the CPSU. Further all on rolled-in: checks, commissions, meetings, party meetings, new complaints ... It came to analyzing the merits and demerits of competing helicopters at the party meeting!

But, despite the large-scale pressure of the lobbyists of the Mile firm, in the autumn of the year 1986, the corresponding research institutes of the Ministry of Defense again issued a verdict in favor of Ka-50. Next, the same vicious circle: slander, checks, meetings, new tests ... When the decision was again made in favor of Ka-50 - once again! - The time for its launch in the series turned out to be irretrievably lost: the power fell, bursting, including, from exorbitant military expenditures. So the lobbyists of the firm Milya left the army without a combat helicopter of a new generation. "

Mi-28 is heavily praised by Americans: "The American AH-64 Apache and Russian Mi-28" Night Hunter "are the two most advanced and deadliest attack helicopters in the world", etc., because it is weaker than Apache, in the international competition in India he lost as much as XNUM points!

But to our pilots, they constantly and long ago promise that the most modern combat helicopter will be launched into a series about, and maybe even earlier! For example, the head of Rostec: “In 2019, in Russia, a new high-speed combat helicopter will take off. Chemezov noted that the helicopter will have a speed above 400 km / h. For comparison: for Ka-52 - 300 km / h, for Mi-28Н - 280 km / h (26.02.2018. Airport. "

I will continue to compare the most "advanced and deadly" Mi-28, started by the head of "Rostecha", but with the "Black Shark".

What kind of super helicopter they deprived our combat pilots, replacing it with "Night Hunter."

  1. Permissible speed Ka-50 - 390km / h.
  2. Army test pilot Colonel A. Rudykh, after checking Ka-50 in the combat conditions of a real war in Chechnya, states: "With a full combat load, the Black Shark hangs at an altitude of 4.000 meters."Officially at Mi-28Н-static ceiling = 3600м. It is doubtful that he will pull out with a full combat load at least to 2600m; but for 3600. and there can be no conversation.
  3. The ability of the "Black Shark" to unfold energetically on 180grad. at any flight speed and meet the catching enemy in the forehead! "Night Hunter" - not available!
  4. Branded combat "funnel": the helicopter moves in a side flight on a wide range above the ground target with a downward slope, which allows to effectively evade the air defense weapons, while in the sight confidently keep the targets. For Mi-28 - not available!
  5. Ka-50 -catalogue seats! On the "Mi" they are not and therefore one can only imagine: what a disgusting feeling Mi-28 pilots experience when they fall in front of a meeting with the earth.
  6. "The maneuverability of the" Alligators "is amazing - it seems that the multi-ton machines literally dance. Or hover, like autumn leaves in the wind."Now you understand why Ka-52 are the best? one of the accompanying officers asks. And, without waiting for an answer, adds: - In the sky, they are kings. Americans did not even dream about it.“She’s a clever girl, flying both day and night, and in the most adverse weather conditions,” Captain Sergey Gorobchenko told us about his rotorcraft. “One word, Swallow!” (“Alligator” named 12.11.2014 Swallow. “Star”).
  7. The static ceiling of the "Black Shark" with the engines VK-2500 - 4300.

“Static ceiling” --- this is the max. height of hovering of the helicopter outside the zone of influence of the airbag, and to better understand this characteristic in real combat conditions - I suggest excerpts

From memories of Afghan veterans - helicopter pilots:

“The high speed characteristics of the Mi-24 were achieved at the cost of the load on the rotor, one and a half times greater than the G-8. In everyday extreme conditions (heat, high mountains, high dustiness) this significantly affected management. Moreover, the usual skills of piloting were often even harmful and could lead to an accident. On takeoff and landing with a heavy weighted screw, a sudden movement of the handle caused a drawdown, they tried to keep the car in the dacha of a “step gas”, the pickup of the “weakened” engines was not enough, and the helicopter rolled to the ground. At low speeds on the "hill" or on the ground, the Mi-24 began to behave unusually. The controllability of the course turned out to be insufficient, the reactive moment of the rotor was pulling the car into a spontaneous left turn and could dump into a helicopter tailspin. With energetic maneuvers with overload at high speeds and angles of attack due to the disruption of the flow from the blades of the Mi-24, he lifted his nose, turning into a “grab” - a cabrirovanie with insubordination to control, after which it collapsed sharply. The case more than once ended with a rough landing on the wing tips and blocks. It was possible to avoid “catching up” with strict observance of restrictions, but in a battle it was not necessary to fly “lower and lower”. In the “pick-up” and with an energetic withdrawal from a dive, blades struck the tail boom. So, in August, 1980, after storming the twenty-fours caravan of the Kozesovo commander and his deputy, Alatortsev, returned to Faizabad with cut tails of blades. This case had tragic consequences - having gone to the control flight after the repair, Major Kozovoy came under fire from the DShK, the steering screw with the blade fired off went astray, the damaged tail rail collapsed, and the uncontrollable car collapsed, burying the entire crew. The hero of the Soviet Union, V. Gainutdinov, was killed in it, - a commerce officer from the G8, who took the place of an operator in the car of his school comrade.

At the exit from the dive with an angle of 20 degrees and at a speed of 250 km / h, the drawdown of the Mi-24 reached 200 m. When piloting at low altitudes and extreme conditions, when the pilot's error could no longer be corrected, the vigor and correctness of the maneuver a joke that it's "as simple as walking on a rope"). Squadron from Kunduz science cost 6 Mi-24D, lost for the first year, mostly for non-combat reasons, broken in the mountains due to fog and unexpected air currents, broken down when landing on the slopes and in gorges.

Vertical take-off in conditions where the helicopter "I AM MYSELF BAD" was almost not used. With the runway usually climbed in the airplane, with 100: 150-meter takeoff. According to the method of the LII, an even more radical method of takeoff with take-off only on the front wheels was mastered "(Mi-24 in Afghanistan, Markovsky).

Mi-28 - rebuilt Mi-24.

"One can say that I was at the source of this problem when the predecessor of this car appeared in Afghanistan - the Mi-24 helicopter. It was created as an airborne infantry fighting vehicle: armed and carrying troops, "explained Major General Alexander Tsalko, a veteran of the war in Afghanistan and a former deputy commander of the Air Force of the Baltic Military District of the USSR for army aviation, to the newspaper VZGLYAD.

"In reality, it was not" and - and ", but" or - or ". With the landing, but without weapons. Or with weapons, but without landing. Because of the landing, the dimensions were increased, and the dimensions are the weight. As a result, we in Afghanistan closer to the middle of 80-x were asked to rebuild Mi-24, and also to clean the cargo cabin. So it would have been somewhere a ton easier, and it would already be a good helicopter of fire support. So the helicopter Mi-80 appeared to the end of 28-x ", - explained Tsalko.

"When the first pilots were retrained to this helicopter, the impressions were very different," added Tsalko. - There were shortcomings there, which always come first. In the process of development they were removed. But at that time another machine came out - Ka-50, it was MUCH better than Mi-28. Because Mi-28 - it's just Mi-24, RETRIEATED at the end of 1980-ies. "

The armament of our air force with Mi-24 / 28 helicopters, which were deemed obsolete by the Soviet Government, pleases only the Americans! It turns out that the decrees of the President on providing our Army with the most modern high-tech weapons - for the beautiful little word? It seemed to me that after the first catastrophes, especially at the air show in front of the audience, the Mi-28 would be removed from service and reinstated in the Black Shark series. Alas, instead on the TV show how the deputy. Minister Yu.Borisov signs with a pomp a contract for 100 Mi-28НМ, which differs from the awkward Mi-28H in that he removed the limitations on the power of VK-2500 engines from 2200л to 2400л, and also the pilot-operator added the second control of the helicopter, which was supposed to be from the very first instance.

In his time, Vladimir Putin himself admired the Black Shark: "And he said shortly:" This is the technique - the spirit captures! "Almost immediately after returning from Vladivostok, the head of government said on Russian radio that the first helicopter the Kamov company of serial production of the Arseniev Aircraft Company Progress will be sent to Chechnya. "

The real owner of the word: "He gave the Word; I took the word ", and then completely forgot!

Army test pilots To verify the Ka-50 helicopters in combat conditions, they had to leave for the Chechen war on their own. In spite of the difficulties that they pinned along the way, the whole group flew to Chechnya, where Ka-50 showed its unique fighting qualities!

In Syria, Mi-28N were sent on their official duty, where for two years of war they showed themselves on the worst side: two Mi-28N crashes and one Mi-24 crash not for combat reasons, killing four high-class pilots.

Vitalii Belyaev specifically for Avia.pro

ALTERNATIVE- 2 designer on their design years of devices for a month (or more) into the war zone. The war will show - WHO (THAT) IS.

In Chechnya Ka-50 returned to the base without a tail boom. Loss of the tail for helicopters from other manufacturers leads to imminent death.

And do not tell me, where and under what circumstances did he lose it? That's only on the commercial with Rudych in the title role do not refer to chur!

Lord! Not a specialist, an amateur. According to the article, one might think that the next squabble of the two bureaus. But ..... From what I know as an amateur, Kamov's car is really better. And as for the "specialists" from the MO, I do not doubt: as everywhere solid accountants instead of financiers, managers instead of specialists

As an expert to the lover: the time to prepare for a re-launch for combat use in ka-50 - 1 an hour 40 minutes. In mi-24, it is limited by the speed of the weapon group and the availability of a free fuel tanker, i.e. about 20 mins For 1 hour 40 basmachi will do all their business and quietly will smoke anasha in their location.

When the fault of undeveloped gearboxes is refused by the tail propeller in flight - the electronics do not matter!

Article nonsense, as well as most of the comments. Both machines Mi 28 and Ka 52 are about the same, with their advantages and disadvantages. And the problem we have with electronics and optics, it's a fact.

In our troops only Ka-50, and Sikorsky let him advise others ....

Andrei: "Now, as far as I know, 52 is actively supplied to the troops. So, that the author is in vain upset. It is a pity that it's too late. "
--- It's true, they are also actively continuing to supply Mi-28, the same one that is the "heavy and slow" Mi-24, but with a change in appearance, and for the worse. It turns out, again someone will have to fly not on modern Ka-50 / 52, but on "heavy and slow" Mi-28.
I disrespect VPShkalov without respect, for the fact that he killed an experienced fighter I-180:
"In the book" Know yourself in battle "three times Hero of the Soviet Union AI. Pokryshkin recalled one of the meetings with the famous test pilot S. Suprun: "He told how the fighter of the I-180 Nikolai Nikolaevich Polikarpov's design passes, its speed reached six hundred and eighty kilometers per hour." He was armed with two or three guns. In one of the test flights on this fighter, the hero of our aviation, Valery Chkalov, crashed, there were influential people who "killed" the debugging of the I-180, although in speed and armament, he did not have an equal fighter in the world. pilots PTA was buried in the wreckage of crashed cars. "
After the war, Pokryshkin said more than once that if the Polikarpov fighter entered our fighter regiments at the beginning of the war, "the losses would be immeasurably less, and we would not have reached Moscow, the Volga and the Caucasus ...".
The test pilot has a risky job! But before the flight on this fighter his NN Polikarpov himself warned that it was impossible to take off on this plane: it was damp and there were many defects there. With tremendous authority, Chkalov could easily refuse to fly, but contrary to sound warnings (and not only from Polikarpov), the best airplane of that time flew out and ditched, for which our fighter pilots then paid with their lives.
At us "killed" in due time and rotorcraft Ka-22, but have started in a series with much worse characteristics Mi-6; first of all Ka-22 was economically much more profitable!
We once killed a high-speed helicopter - Ka-100 attack aircraft and instead of it continues to fly awkward and slow Mi-24.
Mi-28 was built against the Apache and had to surpass it in all respects. Alas, he was initially worse than him "in all respects" and lost to him in the international competition in India at XNUM points. India is a friendly country and there was no politics there.
It's no secret that we were surrounded by NATO troops from all sides and helicopters are not the last ones to join the fighting, so the combat pair: Ka-52 and Ka-50 should be in service today, but not Mi-28, raw and not reliable, moreover and without catapults.

By decision of the Government of the main helicopter in the army goes MI-28, and the SC-52 as a trailer for the individual divisions of troops, management and other # $ # $ #. An attempt to fly at night in Syria for MI-28 pilots, due to backward electronics tragedii.Piloty led to nothing can not see nochyu.Pri shooting from Mi-28 involved both pilots one controls the helicopter and the other at this time leads to the target missile is a simple anti-tank 70 godov.Pro technology that uses Americans "released and forget" is not This is called a budget cut and corruption in power.

The article is interesting. I myself 20 years flew to MI-24. Than the car pleased, than that upset. But in general I agree, heavy and not pivoting. In the mountains it is awkward. With KA-50 collided for the first time in 90 year in Primorye.Machine us all admired its maneuverability. They promised that soon we would cross them. But apparently the money was not enough. So I retired on 24. Now, as far as I know, 52 is actively supplied to the troops. So . that the author is in vain upset. It is a pity that it's too late.

I do not agree with the article, both design bureaus are good, the single system is bad, since electronics in the Russian Federation are still bad, drone will never replace a person, since a person is not predictable, unlike a car. And any drones can be planted, with the help of the REB system or wrapped against the enemy, not to mention the fact that his electronics can simply be burned.
And in general, people are fed up with people who have nothing to do with aviation, pull out phrases from the context. Mi 24 though an obsolete helicopter, but as practice shows much better than the American "APACHE". Mi 35, I personally do not like the new 24 version, if the chassis were retracted and the wing would not be shortened, there would be a modern, fastest, serial helicopter in the world, at a speed of 335 km / h. And about the fact that 368 km / h the real speed only for lightened mi 24, it's bullshit, because in the fighting pilots sometimes squeezed it, you want to live it !!!! Instead of speed chasing, it would be better to return my 35 wing. The main trouble for Russian turntables is electronics, this is the only direction where the US is ahead.

PAUL !!! Now this is ONE KB !! ... gee ....

It's very strange Paul that you do not agree. It seems that you did not see the comparative flights of these machines! So if you compare them by maneuverability, it's like comparing a car (KA-50) with a truck (MI-28)

All very true! Ka-50 - the best helicopter! Even Ka-52 because of the extra space added weight, and this reduction in combat load, speed and deterioration of handling.
It's amazing how you can have a good car, ready, and not put it into production! Betrayal and sabotage smells !?
Rotor 28-th will never bring to the point, because it operates on the limiting modes for the conventional helicopter scheme. And this was spent so much money .....

That's right. The coaxial scheme is symmetrical and aerodynamically more advantageous. Especially when the diameter of the screws is reduced and the speed is increased. And asymmetrical systems - any, - have always been freaks.

because in high offices are not military pilots and merchants. And the businessman about what I think it is correct to fill the pocket with a pocket and there though the grass does not grow. And our lovely pilots will die and those pilots can not cover up on the ground because such as MI-28 is absolutely not adapted to modern combat, despite the cover of the ground forces in battle. I am personally behind the KA-50 black shark. A great fighting machine. and Horror for the American Apache.

Lord! Guys! Yes, a year as Kamov is united in one area with Mil (moved from Luberec to Tomilino)! What new cars! ??? What kind of competition is it !? What high-speed helicopters! ??? Yes, it's just another bubble on the supposedly OKR-ah ... That 28, that 52 machine - both raw flying designs. About what seriality we are talking about - if there is still no one !!!! the same machine ..... how do we pour into the ears of all the hnju ... (((sad ... (((

I participated in the development and testing of guided weapons for K50 ATGM-vortex. Implemented a scheme of "vystelil-forgot." About Mi 28: The co-pilot / operator's seat is 400 kg. The tail screw, reducers, shaft - still 600 kg. This ton in K50 in armament, fuel and armor. Conversations that Mi 28 armored - bryahnya. 12,3mm punches almost everywhere (it was a witness of control shootings at the test site: both helicopters were tested at one site - Smolino) The limit of a single-screw scheme is 380 km / h in theory, it's not even in the roll: the blade moving in the oncoming oncoming stream should exceed the speed of sound. and at last: Mi28 can be heard for 4 km.KaxNUMX you hear meters for 50, no more.

KA-50 is not released from 2008 year ... This is wrecking. A new engine, avionics and weapons - the best plane in the world was!

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